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RE: Timeout property or timeout attribute?

From: harbhanu <harbhanu@huawei.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:26:45 +0530
To: robert.keiller@voxsurf.com, www-voice@w3.org, 'Dan Evans' <devans@invores.com>
Message-id: <006801c6de35$cbccd6f0$b304120a@china.huawei.com>
   Hi Robert,

   I have certain doubt on the clarifications given .

      

    >>"The timeout property simply defines the default value of the prompt
timeout attribute. "

The prompt just offers another alternative to update the timeout for wait
during current input collection, which can supersede the value defined by
timeout property in the scope.

The timeout property will always apply to the recognition process even in
case there are no prompts, or prompts without timeout attribute.

 

>> It is an error (albeit a common one) to believe that the timeout property
defined in a field applies to the behaviour of

the field itself rather than to any prompts, if defined, within that field.

It applies to both ..;)

 

Section: 6.3.4 (Prompt and Collect Properties) - (VoiceXML2.0 spec)

Timeout : The time after which a noinput event is thrown by the platform.
The value is a Time Designation (see Section 6.5). The default value is
platform-dependent. See Appendix D.

 

Also, refer to the implementation report test case No: 603 

http://www.w3.org/Voice/2004/vxml-ir/603/603.txml

How will those implementation which always depends on the prompt's timeout
attribute will pass this testcase??

 

Regards,

Harbhanu

 

 

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From: www-voice-request@w3.org [mailto:www-voice-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of Robert Keiller
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 2:16 PM
To: harbhanu@huawei.com; www-voice@w3.org; 'Dan Evans'
Subject: RE: Timeout property or timeout attribute?

 

Hi,

 

There certainly are or were differences in implementation for this between
different VoiceXML implementations.

I have worked with two or three that would give a 1s timeout and I know
another implementation that would

give a 7s timeout. Although I was initially very surprised by the 7s
interpretation, being already familiar with

the 1s interpretation, I believe now that it is correct. 

 

The timeout property simply defines the default value of the prompt timeout
attribute. 

Since there is no prompt in the field itself the timeout property of 1s is
irrelevant. The only prompt

is in the block where the default value of the timeout attribute is set by
the root document property to 7s.

 

It is an error (albeit a common one) to believe that the timeout property
defined in a field applies to the behaviour of

the field itself rather than to any prompts, if defined, within that field.

 

You can obviously fix this by putting a timeout attribute on the <block>'s
prompt. If there are implementational reasons

why this is not possible (eg the application element that creates the prompt
does not have access to the timeout) an ugly fix

is to put an empty prompt in the field.

 

Robert

 

 

 

 -----Original Message-----
From: www-voice-request@w3.org [mailto:www-voice-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of
harbhanu
Sent: 22 September 2006 06:50
To: www-voice@w3.org; 'Dan Evans'
Subject: RE: Timeout property or timeout attribute?

Hi,

I think as per the VoiceXML 2.0 specification also, the value for timeout
must be 1s.

 

Excerpts from the spec.

 

Section 4.1.7 (Prompt element)

The timeout attribute specifies the interval of silence allowed while
waiting for user input after the end of the last prompt. If this interval is
exceeded, the platform will throw a noinput event. >>"This attribute
defaults to the value specified by the timeout property"<<

 

Section 6.3 (Property element)

Properties may be defined for the whole application, for the whole document
at the <vxml> level, for a particular dialog at the <form> or <menu> level,
or for a particular form item. >>>"Properties apply to their parent element
and all the descendants of the parent."<<< A property at a lower level
overrides a property at a higher level. When different values for a property
are specified at the same level, the last one in document order applies.
Properties specified in the application root document provide default values
for properties in every document in the application; properties specified in
an individual document override property values specified in the application
root document.

 

>From the above two highlighted text, it is expected that the field
'forcePlay' will wait for 1sec before throwing the noinput event.

 

Please let me know about your inputs on this.

 

Regards,

Harbhanu

 

Ps;>Please ignore the text that follows.

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            This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information
from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address
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(including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction,
or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is
prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by
phone or email immediately and delete it!

 

-----Original Message-----
From: www-voice-request@w3.org [mailto:www-voice-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of Dan Evans
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:36 PM
To: www-voice@w3.org
Subject: Timeout property or timeout attribute?

 

 

The following document (extracted from a larger one) produced a 

surprising result which seems to highlight an omission in the spec.

 

<vxml application="root.vxml">

<property name="inputmodes" value="dtmf"/>

<form>

   <block>

     <prompt>some prompt</prompt>

   <block>

   <field name="forcePlay" type="boolean">

     <property name="timeout" value="1s"/>

     <catch event="noinput nomatch">

       <assign name="forcePlay" expr="true"/>

     </catch>

   </field>

</form>

</vxml>

 

root.vxml

<vxml application="root.vxml">

<property name="timeout" value="7s"/>

</vxml>

 

The question is: how long does the field forcePlay wait before throwing 

noinput?

 

The answer: 7 seconds.

 

But if the field timeout property is moved to the dialog scope, the 

answer is: 1 second.

 

The justification supplied by the vendor of the VoiceXML interpreter I 

was using was that the prompt: since it did not specify a timeout 

attribute, defaults to the timeout property in scope (spec 4.1.7) when 

the prompt is queued (the root timeout).  The same section also says 

that the prompt timeout attribute is for supporting tapered prompts.

 

The spec appears to be silent on the relative precedence of a prompt 

timeout versus an explicit property timeout for a field.

 

I think the local scope property timeout should have precedence when 

there is a conflict.  This would make timeout specification explicit 

instead of an inadvertent, and potentially unexpected, side effect.  As 

an alternative, the prompt timeout attribute could define an empty value 

to allow the developer to indicate that the prompt should not carry an 

inherited timeout: <prompt timeout=""> or <prompt timeout="none">.

 

Dan Evans

 
Received on Friday, 22 September 2006 11:16:50 GMT

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