RE: CCXML

Guys,
	It is quite a good idea to separate call control from VoiceXML.
VoiceXML should just deal with dialogue creation and collecting caller
responses. An element like <transfer> does not go well here. But then
question is; how do we transfer a caller to an attendant once he is done
with his choices in VoiceXML menu? How is CCXML going to solve this issue?

	In VoiceXML, we have an Implementation Platform which has properties
related to ASR, TTS, managing timeouts etc. Can we not use this Platform
itself to have some telephony call control also? What I mean is; in the
Implementation Platform we have procedures which give a generic interface to
call control (something like PARLEY/JAIN). Doing this, a VoiceXML Browser
can be installed on any agent with very less effort. Ofcourse, I also mean
that in this scenario, there will be no need of CCXML!!! (not offending
CCXML lovers, but raising a debating point. I am open to suggestions)

Regards,
Alok.

Alok Kumar Verma
Wipro Technologies (T&I)
K-312, 5th Block, 
Koramangala, Bangalore - 95
Phone (080) 553 8301 extn:2762


-----Original Message-----
From: John_Potemri@nmss.com [mailto:John_Potemri@nmss.com]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:30 AM
To: RJ Auburn
Cc: www-voice@w3.org; www-voice-request@w3.org
Subject: Re: CCXML


I have not participated in any of the calls, so you can give me a hard time
for just chiming in, but wouldn't it be easier to have a simple picture
painted for people who are trying to figure their way around?

For instance,
1. a paragraph on what VoiceXML initially did for us (even though there can
be heated discussion, there are some things that can be agreed)
     a. VoiceXML is a presentation language or dialog definition language
for "voice browsing"
     b. intial success in VoiceXML has been around terminating telephony
calls
          - therefore, browsers typically interfaced to telephony hardware,
answered calls, and had (voice) home pages to render
     c. business logic ran on back-end servers (just like the Web world)
     d. from the beginning, there was a clear need to route callers from an
IVR dialog to an agent, etc.,
          - since initially browswers were tighthly coupled with telephony
hardware and there was no call control interface, a transfer tag was
invented

2.  a paragraph on what people have done with VoiceXML
     a. created own extensions to work around limitations of VoiceXML
          - e.g. many people created a way to do "outbound calls"
     b. created own extensions to differentiate

3. some discussion on the directions various companies want to take
VoiceXML
     a. most want to normalize speech integration with VoiceXML
     b. some like to treat it as a full programming language
     c. some want to grow it further as an IVR scripting language and add
call control and more features
     d. the media server people like it for speech/dialog integration as a
script extension/definition in SIP or MGCP, etc.

4. the various directions have conflicting requirements, desires and
preferences for call control integration

And for my opinion,
I firmly believe in the separation of call control (session establishment)
from voice dialogs. I believe that the business logic running in your
favorite ASP-type environment should make decisions on call routing, etc.
and have an orthogonal interface for controlling such activities.

I personally would like to see "transfer" deprecated, and if
backward-compatibility is such an issue for it, define it as optional, and
implement it as a proxy request back to the real owner of call control. The
sooner we do this, the less baggage we carry into the future.

Imagine how simple that is to explain to someone writing applications. It
suits the "web-centric", it's understandable for the "traditional IVR", and
it's modular and distributed for engineers to define new architectures,
etc.

I will also voice the same opinion towards other scripting interfaces and
protocols being discussed in other forums for which some people on this
mailing list may be participating.

There are efforts being made around defining CCXML and I'll make best
efforts to review that, but my two comments are: 1-keep call control and
media separate; and 2-be careful to define subsets within CCXML for basic
call handling vs. extended features that support everything from call
centers to lighting phone lamps to supporting conferencing to performing
transfers via every possible method.

'nuff said,
-John


John Potemri
Director of Technology, Network Solutions
NMS Communications
100 Crossing Blvd
Framingham, MA  01702
john_potemri@nmss.com



 

                    RJ Auburn

                    <rj@voxeo.com>       To:     Hari Kishan N
<hari.kishann@wipro.com>                             
                    Sent by:             cc:     Arun Prasad
<tprasad@ecomserver.com>, <www-voice@w3.org>           
                    www-voice-requ       Subject:     Re: CCXML

                    est@w3.org

 

 

                    12/12/2001

                    06:01 PM

 

 





On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Hari Kishan N wrote:
> Hi Auburn,
> I am not clear about the functionality of CCXML, can you please clarify
my
> foll. queries.
> 1. Is it going to support various telecom. protocols like PRI,SIP,ISUP
> etc....??

The idea of CCXML is that it would not be specific to any individual
telephony protocol but should be able to support many of the features
depending on how it was implemented.

> 2. I have come across some VoiceXML tags like connect, transfer
etc...then
> what are this for...??

While VoiceXML does have the <transfer> tag it does not provide a full set
of call control features. There is work in the CCXML group to allow it to
integrate with the VoiceXML call control features.

> 3.Where can I find details of the the CCXML .

The spec has not been released to the public yet. We will announce it as
soon as it is out!

> 4.And is our Voice Browser going to support this or do we need some other
> components.

That question is something you would have to ask your Voice Browser vendor.

Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with,

     RJ Auburn

--

RJ Auburn
Chief Network Architect
Voxeo Corporation
100 Enterprise Way Module G3
Scotts Valley, CA 95066
831-461-4963 - Phone
831-439-0883 - Fax

Bring your web application to the phone for free.
Find out how at http://community.voxeo.com

On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Hari Kishan N wrote:

> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:05:05 +0530
> From: Hari Kishan N <hari.kishann@wipro.com>
> To: RJ Auburn <rj@voxeo.com>, Arun Prasad <tprasad@ecomserver.com>
> Cc: www-voice@w3.org
> Subject: Re: CCXML
>
> Hi Auburn,
> I am not clear about the functionality of ccxml, can you please clarify
my
> foll. queries.
> 1. Is it going to support various telecom. protocols like PRI,SIP,ISUP
> etc....??
> 2. I have come across some VoiceXML tags like connect, transfer
etc...then
> what are this for...??
> 3.Where can I find details of the the CCXML .
> 4.And is our VoiceBrowser going to support this or do we need some other
> components.
>
> thanks in Advance,
> Hari.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RJ Auburn" <rj@voxeo.com>
> To: "Arun Prasad" <tprasad@ecomserver.com>
> Cc: <www-voice@w3.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 11:53 AM
> Subject: Re: CCXML
>
>
> > Arun,
> >
> > CCXML is a call control language not a dialog language like VoiceXML.
What
> > is the difference you may ask? A dialog language defines the
interactions
> > with the user, such as what to speak to the user and what the user can
> > say back. A call control language controls how you get everything
> > connected, and allows you to do complex call control applications such
as
> > follow-me/find-me and call center integration but does not deal
directly
> > with the interactions with the user.
> >
> > The two languages work well with each other and are designed to
complement
> > each other as opposed to compete with each other.
> >
> > You can find the latest VoiceXML specification by going to:
> > http://www.w3.org/Voice/
> >
> > Currently CCXML is still in development inside the w3c and has not been
> > published. We hope to get a initial draft out soon so keep in touch!
> >
> > Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with,
> >
> > RJ Auburn
> > CCXML Editor
> > --
> >
> > RJ Auburn
> > Chief Network Architect
> > Voxeo Corporation
> > 100 Enterprise Way Module G3
> > Scotts Valley, CA 95066
> > 831-461-4963 - Phone
> > 831-439-0883 - Fax
> >
> > Bring your web application to the phone for free.
> > Find out how at http://community.voxeo.com
> >
> > On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Arun Prasad wrote:
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:01:41 +0530
> > > From: Arun Prasad <tprasad@ecomserver.com>
> > > To: www-voice@w3.org
> > > Subject: CCXML
> > > Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:31:52 -0500 (EST)
> > > Resent-From: www-voice@w3.org
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Can somebody help me out in CCXML.
> > >
> > > What is the relation,difference between voicexml and ccxml???
> > >
> > > Where can i find out the documents...
> > >
> > > Thanks & Regards,
> > > ARUN
> > >
> > >
>
>