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Re: [VE][html5] Warning about multiple h1 seems to go against HTML5 design

From: Tony Middleton <tony@middleton.me.uk>
Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 20:29:33 +0100
Message-ID: <5383961D.90303@middleton.me.uk>
To: www-validator@w3.org
Thank you for the responses.  Would appear I have been reading some
out-of-date documents.

Regards

Tony

On 26/05/14 17:25, Michael[tm] Smith wrote:
> "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi>, 2014-05-26 18:01 +0300:
>
>> 2014-05-23 19:09, Tony Middleton wrote:
>>
>>> I have a number of pages with a <section> which contains a number of
>>> <section> groups.  Both the top level section and the subsidiary
>>> sections have h1 elements.  This I understood is the suggested way of
>>> doing things in HTML5.
>> I don't think it ever was the suggested way. Rather, a possible way.
>> According to current HTML5 CR, it is still permitted but strongly
>> discouraged.
> More details at https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Usage/Headings/h1only
>
> A key problem in practice right now with only using H1s is that current
> browsers do not yet actually expose the correct outline depth of headings
> to accessibility software in the way that the HTML spec says they must.
>
> So if you only use H1s in a document -- even if the H1s are in nested
> <section>s -- screen readers will announce all of them to users as top-
> level headings regardless of what their outline depth (nesting level) is.
>
> That is, if your source doc has this:
>
>   <body>
>    <h1>top level heading</h1>
>     <section><h1>(intended) 2nd level heading</h1>
>      <section><h1>(intended) 3nd level heading</h1> 
>      </section>
>     </section>
>
> ...then you might expect it'd result in the headings of that document
> getting presented to screen-reader users like this:
>
>   → top level heading
>   → → 2nd level heading
>   → → → 3rd level heading
>
> ...but in fact it currently gets presented to SR users like this:
>
>   → top level heading
>   → top level heading
>   → top level heading
>
>>> However,  the validator gives me the following warning for the second
>>> level h1's.
>>>
>>> Consider using the h1 element as a top-level heading only (all h1
>>> elements are treated as top-level headings by many screen readers and
>>> other tools
> That is a recent warning that was experimentally added, for the reasons
> Jukka describes below. If and when browsers actually get around to
> conforming to the HTML spec on this and exposing the outline depths of
> heading correctly, in the way the spec requires, the warning could be
> retired. (There are bugs open against all major browser engines requesting
> that they implement correct outline depths for headings.)
>
>> This apparently reflects the change described at
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Feb/thread.html#msg125
>> and the current wording at
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/sections.html#headings-and-sections
>> which says:
>> "Sections may contain headings of any rank, and authors are strongly
>> encouraged to use headings of the appropriate rank for the section's
>> nesting level."
>>
>> What this means is that you should use <h2> for any heading that is
>> 2nd level relative to the page as a whole.
> Yeah, so that instead of using the markup in the example above,
> current best-practice (given the lack of outline-depth support in browsers
> at this point) is to instead do this:
>
>   <body>
>    <h1>top level heading</h1>
>     <section><h2>(intended) 2nd level heading</h2>
>      <section><h3>(intended) 3nd level heading</h3> 
>      </section>
>     </section>
>
Received on Monday, 26 May 2014 19:29:59 UTC

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