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Re: [VE] [html5] spurious "must have child option" when all options in optgroups

From: Ken Geis <kgeis@berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:25:37 -0700
Message-ID: <534EE741.7030903@berkeley.edu>
To: "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi>
CC: "www-validator@w3.org" <www-validator@w3.org>
> The drafts thinks otherwise, and I think it's more logical.
Thank you for additional clarity! With the minds on these specs, it was 
highly unlikely that I was going to find a real issue with them.

Please disregard my complaints about both the spec and the validator.


Ken

On 04/16/2014 12:41 PM, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
> 2014-04-16 21:00, Ken Geis wrote:
>
>> I guess I have a problem with the spec.
>
> HTML5 CR is still a draft, though probably close to being final. 
> Issues with it are best discussed in the www-html list.
>
>> I believe that if my select is
>> required and I have an option selected, then I should not need a
>> placeholder.
>
> The drafts thinks otherwise, and I think it's more logical. If an 
> option is initially selected, due to the attribute, then the select 
> control always has a value. Unless that value is set to the empty 
> string (<option selected value="">), which would be rather anomalous, 
> there is no point in using the attribute required. It would express a 
> requirement that is always fulfilled.
>
>> From what I've read, the following situation would be
>> legitimate in HTML 4.01 but not in HTML 5.
>>
>> <!DOCTYPE html>
>> <title>test</title>
>> <select size=1 required>
>> <optgroup label=jkldf>
>>      <option selected>hello
>> </optgroup>
>> </select>
>
> The attribute required is not in HTML 4.01 at all.
>
> In HTML5, you can use that attribute to make user input required (in a 
> sense described in the draft: trying to submit the form fails if no 
> input has been given etc.). For a <select> element, this means that 
> the user must make a choice. This is incompatible with the idea of 
> setting a default value.
>
> So this is not just about validation, but also functionality.
>
> What if the attribute selected is not there? Well, the traditional 
> behavior of browsers is that they act as if the first option were 
> pre-selected. So to make input (selection of some option) required, 
> you need to play the game where you have a dummy first option with 
> value="". It gets pre-selected (even if the attribute selected is not 
> used), but with an empty value, it does not satisfy the requiredness 
> constraint. That is, the user is "forced" to select some real option.
>
> Yucca
>
Received on Wednesday, 16 April 2014 20:26:06 UTC

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