W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-validator@w3.org > April 2002

Re: New version of Quality Tips for Webmaster

From: Terje Bless <link@pobox.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:28:04 +0200
To: Olivier Thereaux <ot@w3.org>
cc: www-validator@w3.org, karl@w3.org
Message-ID: <f01050101-1013-9F2F6BCC53D811D6B75900039300CF5C@[]>
Olivier Thereaux <ot@w3.org> wrote:

>On Fri, Apr 19, 2002, Terje Bless wrote:
>>Olivier Thereaux <ot@w3.org> wrote:
>>>since it's not (yet) in context, it's disturbing that the new (well,
>>>future) version of the validator shows the tip exactly where the
>>>validation result used to be.
>>"disturbing"? That word carries rather strong connotations to me and
>>seems somewhat odd in the context.
>Ah, the joy of reporting someone else's feedback!
>That remark was made about the service on :8001

Can you provide the original context for that? As I said, "disturbing"
carries far stronger connotations (given _this_ context) then feels
appropriate to me. I'm having trouble relating it to possible ways to
address the concern or even what the concern actually is.

>and, indeed, on that version the location is a tad disturbing for
>people used to the production version of the validator.

It's slightly different, yes. The current development code is different
from that again. You can see a screenshot (100KB!) at

>>The current code in CVS attempts to put the tip in a floating DIV on
>>the right side of the Validation Results (analogous to the QA floating
>That would indeed not be "disturbing". I have not seen the actual
>result, but am wondering, is it taking a lot of real estate in the page?

A bit more then I would prefer, but it should turn out ok.

>And, given the number of current browsers which are far from friendly
>with CSS positionning, and even less with float, I'd be extremely
>cautious with it.

I am. :-)

I haven't gotten to the point of testing this yet; what popular browsers do
with it will be a major factor in determining where it will end up and what
it will look like. The structure should stay mostly the same though, unless
any new factors enter the picture.

>Another idea : put the "tip of the day box", with a distinct color (but
>not too violent, e.g some gentle green) above the form.

But this is /not/ "disturbing"?!? :-)

I tried putting "This is Valid Foo" up there and got screams of protest;
and on further consideration I agree. I want to keep the metadata about the
validated page as the first thing there, then "meta" warnings, then the tip
and internal navigation (Source, Outline, etc.), followed by the status
(valid, not valid), followed by the detailed results. This, I think, makes
the most sense, structurally (and, as it happens, visually too).

>I'm certain some people would recommend to "never put anything before
>the form", but remember most of "tip of the day" boxes pop up before you
>can actually use the sofware. I'm not sure if it's good or bad, your

I tend to get pretty badly irritated by the Tip Of The Day boxes and the
Office Assistants and Talking Paperclips, and turn them off ASAP. I want
the Tip to be both immediately obvious _and_ stay out of the way. This
means it's a tradeoff between two diametrical goals...

Of course we are the good guys! We define what is good and evil. All other
definitions are wrong, and possibly the product of a deranged imagination.
                                                         -- Stephen Harris
Received on Friday, 19 April 2002 17:02:01 UTC

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