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Re: (MOB)HTML - Merge on browser HTML (was SDPML)

From: <development@crm20.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:20:11 -0500
Message-ID: <1cfa01c73f55$ccaae3b0$0700a8c0@production>
To: "sunil vanmullem" <sunil.vanmullem@btopenworld.com>
Cc: <www-talk@w3.org>

absolutely it does increase the load on the server, you need a php script to serve the pieces of the page IN SEPERATE REQUESTS, that 
makes no sense whatsoever, increases both bandwith and server load tremendously, a well designed website(application) would simply 
write the complete page to the hard drive on the server as HTML file, each request would then not incur any server side processing 
other than simply serve the requested page, I'd say that's probably 99% more load on the server than would be incurred with a well 
designed cached content on the server.

-ark

This in no way increases bandwidth, or increases load on the server
Quite the opposite.

Sunil



-----Original Message-----
From: development@crm20.com [mailto:development@crm20.com]
Sent: 23 January 2007 23:59
To: sunil vanmullem; hannes.ledl@ledl.at
Cc: www-talk@w3.org
Subject: Re: (MOB)HTML - Merge on browser HTML (was SDPML)



rendering part has always been the job of the client, well designed
website(application) already caches completed pages or parts of
them on the server, so there is no processing on the server with each
request, just HTML files saved on the hard drive.

what you are doing is rather than design efficient website(application) on
the server, you add overhead both to the client and
bandwidth, in addition you complicate the client requirements and in some
cases make the website invisible(googlebot and other bots
will never process javascript, it's just not feasible)

can you give an example of a simple web server? any chance you could also
give an example of a more complicated one that might be
required if someone is not using your idea

so after all this to make sure we can use a simple server, you now propose
to expand the server side for the purpose of satisfying
the googlebot? won't that change the requirement from the simple server to
the more complicated one?

why not just use current standards and focus on developing a better
website(application) that can better cache and manage content so
it is more efficient handling requests without adding to complexity of the
client code, amount of bandwidth and making the content
invisible to googlebot and other such desirable automated visitors.

I'm not a cynic, just always looking for better more efficient ways of doing
things, this definitely is not.

-ark
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "sunil vanmullem" <sunil.vanmullem@btopenworld.com>
To: <hannes.ledl@ledl.at>
Cc: <www-talk@w3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: (MOB)HTML - Merge on browser HTML (was SDPML)



Hi Hannes, thanks for your message.

The application would still continue to do what it does, in sending only the
content appropriate to the user and their context Within the application.
That doesn't change.

What (MOB)HTML says is 'hey application server, you don't need to know how
the data is displayed, just give me the content, give me a link to a
template and I'll put them together at the client side. so *the application
server doesn't have to do as much as it did before as the rendering part of
the web page production pipeline is moved to the client and this brings
efficiencies.

* As the template is not going to change, this can be served by a just a
simple web server

* and now that the application server and how the page looks are separated,
The two can changed almost independently of each other.

Agreed about Google, that's why I'm writing a server side rendering piece
which brings the rendering back to the app server for browsers that don't
support This new way of doing things and present regular HTML to them. In
time, with

adoption of MOBHTML, I'd like to think that search engines would be able to
Do the rendering at their end. I'd certainly be happy to write a plug-in for
google.

Thanks for the constructive comments, I was beginning to think this forum
was dead, or worse full of cynics.


Sunil Vanmullem
www.paglis.co.uk




-----Original Message-----
From: www-talk-request@w3.org [mailto:www-talk-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of
Hannes Ledl / LEDL & PARTNER
Sent: 22 January 2007 22:38
To: www-talk@w3.org
Subject: RE: (MOB)HTML - Merge on browser HTML (was SDPML)




Hi sunil

For my understanding -> you / your application serves pages
an you let the client decide what to do -> what to show.

But why you leave the decision to the end of the line (the client / the
browser) what about the way keep this decision at lowest level.

The server -> an keep the content submitted with a lowest as possible logic.
Let the server handle the content for the appropriate browser and only serve
content really needed.

How do you think about SEO? I think, the 'googles' will not handle your
content as you want to have.


Regards from Austria -> Velden
Hannes Ledl

http://www.ledl.at
Received on Wednesday, 24 January 2007 11:33:11 GMT

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