W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-tag@w3.org > September 2013

Re: "Right to Link" In the News

From: Harry Halpin <hhalpin@ibiblio.org>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 16:19:58 +0200
Message-ID: <CAE1ny+75sm+mpeHNAj6xELsUtVfnk9Q0HP7KMu-DiKYKRQPaYA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Konstantinov Sergey <twirl@yandex-team.ru>
Cc: David Sheets <kosmo.zb@gmail.com>, "ashok.malhotra@oracle.com" <ashok.malhotra@oracle.com>, "Appelquist Daniel (UK)" <daniel.appelquist@telefonica.com>, www-tag <www-tag@w3.org>, Wendy Seltzer <wseltzer@w3.org>
Questions to be answered:

1) Is posting a link to a chat room make something available to the "public"

2) Does posting a link make a work available to the "public"?

I would say the answer to both is definitely not "yes".

 When did it first become public? What makes something public is
posting the data with a URI to the Web with no access control in the
first place. That should be self-evident. If WIPO disagrees, then WIPO
should be ignored and/or reformed by sensible people. Using that as a
basis for any sort of prosecution will have a damaging effect on the
Web IMHO.

On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Konstantinov Sergey
<twirl@yandex-team.ru> wrote:
> 19.09.2013, 18:09, "David Sheets" <kosmo.zb@gmail.com>:
>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Konstantinov Sergey
>> <twirl@yandex-team.ru> wrote:
>>
>>>  Oh, I like philosophying too :) But my note is not about philosophycal aspects of linking and copyright, but practical ones.
>>>  See comments below.
>>>
>>>  19.09.2013, 17:39, "Harry Halpin" <hhalpin@ibiblio.org>:
>>>>  Note that we did a little philosophy paper on this, the key is
>>>>  hyperlinks use URIs, but URIs are ambitionally ambiguous because URIs
>>>>  allow *access* and *reference*.
>>>>
>>>>  Due to this dual nature between access and reference, a link _may_
>>>>  allow access. Yet a URI does not have to allow access, i.e. the
>>>>  document may produce a 404. A URI can also be used without access, it
>>>>  can be used to just refer, as is often the case with Sematic Web
>>>>  technologies.
>>>>
>>>>  It's the same with names. If I say "Hey Daniel Appelquist, come over
>>>>  here and have a coffee", the name "Daniel Appelquist" only works *if*
>>>>  Daniel is nearby, hears me, and can walk over. Natural language names
>>>>  started as ways of accessing people in small groups, but today are
>>>>  primarily referential. Think of URIs lie proper names.
>>>>
>>>>  When does a URI allow access? Obviously, access *only* happens when a
>>>>  user clicks and the refererred site does not provide any access
>>>>  control itself. So, posting a URI is referential primarily, not access
>>>>  itself. Access is the fault of the user's clicking and the server
>>>>  holding the date.
>>>  That is, in my opinion, weak line of defence.
>>>  Storing a copyrighted work on a public server does not violate author's right. And even making a copyrighted work available to the whole web to download doesn't do that. What violates the right is _public announce_.
>>
>> What violates the right is _distribution_.
>
> I quoted World Intellectual Property Organization Copyright Treaty below. Making a work available to a public violates authors' law.
>
>>
>>>  So effectively _link_ violates copyright, not the carelessness of the public service maintainer.
>>
>> Does linking constitute distribution?
>>
>>>>  Philosophical argumentation wrt Semantic Web (a bit dated) below:
>>>>
>>>>  [1] http://www.ibiblio.org/hhalpin/homepage/publications/indefenseofambiguity.html
>>>>
>>>>  On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Konstantinov Sergey
>>>>  <twirl@yandex-team.ru> wrote:
>>>>>   After our last telcon I spent some time with legal codes and formulated some thoughts on linking & copyright. I hope you find them useful.
>>>>>
>>>>>   1. Applicable law.
>>>>>   Though the jurisdiction problem really exists, in fact, copyright law is quite the same in many countries.
>>>>>   Digital copyright principles were established in World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) Copyright Treaty (WCT) in 1996. All WIPO members adopted the WCT as a local law - for example, DMCA is US implementation of the WCT.
>>>>>
>>>>>   2. WCT (and other treaties it incorporates, like Berne Convention) describes a set of rights which are exclusevily belong to authors (or copyright holders) and a **complete** list of exceptions to them.
>>>>>
>>>>>   3. Article 8 of the WCT states, that "authors of literary and artistic works shall enjoy the exclusive right of authorizing any communication to the public of their works, by wire or wireless means, including the making available to the public of their works in such a way that members of the public may access these works from a place and at a time individually chosen by them."
>>>>>
>>>>>   As we see, WCT undoubtfully states that the right of making a work available to the public BY ANY MEANS belongs to author exclusively. Publishing hyperlink to a work definitely makes it available in a sense of WCT as it provides "a way that members of the public may access these works from a place and at a time individually chosen by them". In that sense linking is NOT the same as referring: when you're referring a work, you state its name and catalogue number; when you link it, you state WHERE to found it. URN of a work doesn't break author's exclusive right, but URL does. The only question here is whether you'd be found guilty of knowingly violating the copyright or not -- it depends whether you'd be able to prove "fair use" or not. The link itself is illegal in any case.
>>>>>
>>>>>   So, my (sad) conclusion is: in general, linking *may* violate the copyright in terms of current law. In my view it is useless to try to protect "right of linking" under current law since current copyright law IS really treating the existence of the Web as a whole.
>>>>>
>>>>>   15.09.2013, 20:31, "Ashok Malhotra" <ashok.malhotra@oracle.com>:
>>>>>>   Hi Dan:
>>>>>>   For some reason I cannot find the article even though I have a NY Times subscription!
>>>>>>   Could you send the title of the article so that I could search for it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   The blog I wrote about Linking http://malhotrasahib.blogspot.com/2013/07/linking-and-law.html
>>>>>>   goes a bit further in making the analogy between linking and free speech.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   This work stalled because we did not get a clear idea of the message the W3C wanted to send and
>>>>>>   the form it should be sent.  If we can get some direction on this, I'm happy to do more work on it.
>>>>>>   All the best, Ashok
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   On 9/10/2013 3:53 AM, Appelquist Daniel (UK) wrote:
>>>>>>>    Related to the TAG's work on publishing and linking on the Web, I read the
>>>>>>>    following with some alarm in this morning's paper:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    http://nyti.ms/17Qdf8H
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    #RightToLink is trending on Twitter in relation to this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Wendy – the TAG made an attempt to tackle this space in order to provide
>>>>>>>    fodder for a "friend of the court" document for cases such as this. The
>>>>>>>    result was the following:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    http://www.w3.org/TR/publishing-linking/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    …which unfortunately did not go far enough (in my view) in articulating a
>>>>>>>    connection between linking and freedom of expression.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    In this case reported in the NY Times, considering the "chilling effect"
>>>>>>>    of the legal restriction of linking, does it make sense for W3C to weigh
>>>>>>>    in, and if so could we adapt some of the thinking in this document to do
>>>>>>>    so, from a perspective of clarifying Web architecture.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Thanks,
>>>>>>>    Dan Appelquist
>>>>>>>    TAG Co-Chair
>>>>>   --
>>>>>   Konstantinov Sergey
>>>>>   Yandex Maps API Development Team Lead
>>>>>   http://api.yandex.com/maps/
>>>  --
>>>  Konstantinov Sergey
>>>  Yandex Maps API Development Team Lead
>>>  http://api.yandex.com/maps/
>
> --
> Konstantinov Sergey
> Yandex Maps API Development Team Lead
> http://api.yandex.com/maps/
Received on Thursday, 19 September 2013 14:20:25 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Wednesday, 7 January 2015 15:33:21 UTC