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RE: Highlighting issue of XML support in DOM 4 (was: TAG Decision .....develop a polyglot guide)

From: Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 06:37:45 -0800
To: Noah Mendelsohn <nrm@arcanedomain.com>, "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>
CC: Daniel Glazman <daniel@glazman.org>, Norm Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Message-ID: <C68CB012D9182D408CED7B884F441D4D1E3FF99CFB@nambxv01a.corp.adobe.com>
Why is the working group removing support for a feature which is widely deployed and used, and has significant use cases.

In the past, there have been strong arguments for retaining "features" (or mis-features, like sniffing) merely on reports (and scant evidence) that there were web sites that depended on backward compatibility with previous mis-configured browsers. 

Removing features that are widely deployed seems like contradictory behavior.
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noah Mendelsohn [mailto:nrm@arcanedomain.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:11 PM
> To: www-tag@w3.org
> Cc: Daniel Glazman; Norm Walsh
> Subject: Highlighting issue of XML support in DOM 4 (was: TAG Decision
> .....develop a polyglot guide)
> 
> I know you've all seen the long thread on polyglot. At the risk of adding
> further noise, I'm highlighting this note specifically to www-tag because
> it raises a significant issue that I don't think was discussed when we did
> our XML/HTML integration report. Quoting Daniel from the note below:
> 
> > Guys, I tried to make BlueGriffon output polyglot html5 for future
> > 1.7 and I am hitting a serious issue: I am unable to do it for one
> > single reason... Rendering engines are removing support for
> > Document.xmlVersion, Document.xmlStandalone and
> Document.xmlEncoding
> > that are deprecated in DOM 4. I have then *no way at all* of
> > knowing if a document was parsed with an XML declaration or not
> > from script, using the DOM.
> 
> Regardless of your position on polyglot and XML, the DOM 4 decision does
> seem significant, and I had not been aware of it. Worth any TAG discussion?
> Does it affect our recommendation on polyglot? Should we push on the DOM
> WG
> to change?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Noah
> 
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: TAG Decision on Rescinding the request to the HTML WG to
> develop  a polyglot guide
> Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:51:55 +0000
> Resent-From: www-tag@w3.org
> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 08:51:28 +0100
> From: Daniel Glazman <daniel@glazman.org>
> To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
> CC: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi>,
> Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Noah Mendelsohn
> <nrm@arcanedomain.com>,
>   "www-tag@w3.org List" <www-tag@w3.org>, "public-html@w3.org"
> <public-html@w3.org>,  Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Anne van
> Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl>, Aryeh Gregor <ayg@aryeh.name>,  Lachlan
> Hunt
> <lachlan.hunt@lachy.id.au>, Ms2ger <ms2ger@gmail.com>
> 
> (cc:ed to DOM 4 editors)
> 
> Guys, I tried to make BlueGriffon output polyglot html5 for future
> 1.7 and I am hitting a serious issue: I am unable to do it for one
> single reason... Rendering engines are removing support for
> Document.xmlVersion, Document.xmlStandalone and Document.xmlEncoding
> that are deprecated in DOM 4. I have then *no way at all* of
> knowing if a document was parsed with an XML declaration or not
> from script, using the DOM.
> The XML declaration is not reachable as a PI in the OM. Since an
> editor like mine can edit all flavors of html, it still needs to
> output the xml declaration for xhtml and for html5 if the polyglot
> option is not chosen.
> 
> Because of that deprecation in DOM 4 (already removed in mozilla
> central), Polyglot HTML5 is totally impossible to implement in an
> application that is not Polyglot-HTML5 only... I guess this is an
> architectural issue for the TAG, right?
> 
> </Daniel>
> 
> 
> 
> 

Received on Tuesday, 22 January 2013 14:38:15 GMT

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