- From: Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>
- Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 16:24:07 +0000
- To: www-tag@w3.org
Now available online at
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/12/12-minutes.html
and below in text form.
ht
-----------
- DRAFT -
Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
12 Dec 2013
See also: [2]IRC log
Attendees
Present
Dan Appelquist, Tim Berners-Lee, Sergey Konstantinov, Yves
Lafon, Peter Linss, Alex Russell, Jeni Tennison, Henry S.
Thompson
Regrets
Anne van Kesteren
Chair
Dan Appelquist
Scribe
Henry S. Thompson
Contents
1. [3]London (7-9 January) F2F planning
2. [4]Agenda page for January F2F
3. [5]Extensible Web Submit
4. [6]Spec reviews
5. [7]Push API
6. [8]Web Animation
7. [9]Web Crypto
8. [10]Upcoming events
__________________________________________________________________
London (7-9 January) F2F planning
DKA: JT, all ready for us?
JT: Yes, room booked, local arrangements page up and sent out
JT: Go out for lunch, or have things laid on?
<slightlyoff> I'd be happy to go out
<slightlyoff> I feel like arranging lunch has been a burden for
organizers so far
TBL: Two catered in, one out
JT: Will do
... Light breakfast too?
DKA: Yes, please
... Developer meet-up -- looking for venue
... Hoping to get Google campus, not confirmed
... Fallback is GSMA
... This is all for evening of the 7th
... I'll put this up on Eventbrite
... Dinner out on evening of the 8th
Agenda page for January F2F
<dka> [11]http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG/Planning/2014-01-F2F
<slightlyoff> oh good
<slightlyoff> can we schedule time to discuss the layering of Web
Components at the F2F?
DKA: Invited Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to join us to talk about
"permissions" topic that he would like TAG input on.
<slightlyoff> I think it'd be an important thing to review
DKA: Hoping to invite Phil Archer to pick up on the Data activity
<slightlyoff> sure
<slightlyoff> also, the JSON thing
<slightlyoff> it's coming! really!
<timbl> :)
<slightlyoff> do we want to talk about the JSON thing today?
<slightlyoff> hrm...
DKA: Yes, good, we'll put the Web Components topic on
<slightlyoff> do we want to put any of the HTTP2 stuff on the agenda?
is there anything new there?
<JeniT> add capability URLs to agenda
TBL: Timing for each day?
DKA: 0830 for 0900 start
... End at 1730
Extensible Web Submit
DKA: Still looking for a venue -- date is fixed for 4 April
... Downtown, or OK further afield
... Suggestions welcome
<slightlyoff> Google is hard...but I can look
Spec reviews
DKA: Push API, Web Animations, Web Crypto
Push API
<slightlyoff> I'm prepared to talk about push API
<dka>
[12]https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/blob/c218958ce2c9b655282bd1e
bdbe93e8902b423e1/2013/08/Push%20API.md
<slightlyoff> ah, yes
<slightlyoff> [13]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/push/raw-file/tip/index.html
AR: Push API has some good parts and some less good parts
... I'm not happy with the layering aspects
<slightlyoff>
[14]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/push/raw-file/tip/index.html#navigator-inter
face
AR: Current spec says Navigator gets a Manager attached to it
function registerPush() {
navigator.push.register().then(
function(value) {
pushRegistrations.push(value);
registerWithAppServer(value);
},
function(reason) {alert("darn! "+ reason );}
);
}
AR: Good promise-based registration
... Why is this different from [??]
... Why register for multiple servers?
if (navigator.hasPendingMessages("push")) {
// do any special pre-processing before push messages are delivered
}
last_version = null; // initialize last message version
navigator.setMessageHandler("push", gotPush);
navigator.setMessageHandler("push-register", reRegisterPush);
AR: worst part of API is this.
... setmessagehandler seems to suggest you'll be pushing a javascript
message without a specific context.
... who wants this - in a world where if you close the tab you can't
get push messages. Or is the idea that when the tab is reawakened you
now get the push messages? And if so why are these not events just sent
to the document?
... The use case isn't particularly clear.
AR: These should just be events, instead of messages
... I think a good chunk of this needs to be events-based, rather than
message delivery
SK: I agree, I had the same difficulty figuring out the
context/background assumptions
SK: I think it's premature to send a review until these things are
clear
<dka> Suggest a way forward here: Alex can you capture your thoughts
into the document, then send them over to the working group chairs and
spec editors...
<slightlyoff> I like this plan
DKA: So we need to fold what AR said into SK's document ASAP, then send
some kind of notification of our higher-level concerns (as opposed to a
detailed review) to the WG, and ask them to join us on a call soon.
<slightlyoff> +1
AR: Right, the document as it stands is not ready for an implementer to
read.
DKA: We do have one call scheduled before the end of the year
<slightlyoff> happy to draft something that that repo today to outline
areas for discussion
DKA: I will try to line them up for 19 December if we can move that
fast
<ht> +1
<dka> +1
<slightlyoff> SGTM, I can be there on the 19th
SK: +1
<plinss> +1
<slightlyoff> yep, will do
DKA: First step is to get AR's comments into the feedback document
<slightlyoff> apologies for having delayed this discussion until this
week
DKA: Let me know when that's done, and then I'll get in touch with the
editors
Web Animation
<dka>
[15]https://github.com/twirl/spec-reviews/blob/ceb61bdc7969f730475d23e3
38c31b05071b9ee6/2013/10/Web%20Animations.md
SK: Comments, anyone?
AR: Where are they in the Process? Are they at Last Call?
PL: Still [an ordinary] WD
<slightlyoff> [16]http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/web-animations/
<Yves> still regular WD, not even LC
DKA: SK has raised some issues in his review [see above]
... Mostly not major, but levels of abstraction could be
SK: I didn't find any major issues, I thought the spec was very good
... There are related contentious issues, and some weird behaviours are
suggested
<slightlyoff> there are some real naming issues (the shed should be
green!): "SeqGroup", "ParGroup", etc.
SK: It's a very complicated spec, we really need another reviewer
DKA: Can someone volunteer to spend the time
<slightlyoff> I should...I've been asked to look at it from the Google
side as well
PL: I already volunteered, will do as soon as I can
<slightlyoff> at least everything has constructors = )
DKA: It would be good to finish this off by the F2F
<slightlyoff> most of the Google folks are in Sydney
DKA: And maybe have a live feedback session via IRC/Voice/...
<slightlyoff> Tab's usually PST
PL: Coming from the FX task force (CSS and SVG), mostly SVG input
latterly
... Timezones not v. friendly
Web Crypto
<dka>
[17]https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/blob/master/2013/11/WebCrypt
o.md
<slightlyoff> my apologies that I haen't finished something coherent
for crypto
DKA: AR, ready to talk about this yet?
... There's been a lot of work going on
AR: Group has a lot of challenges
... Particularly wrt scope
... Hard to manage many use-cases driving into every discussion
... Trying to decide about low- vs. high-level API
... Currently aiming for low-level
... Looking at streams vs. promises, worried about churn in the
promises spec
... Question about including algorithms into discussion of
APIs/implementations
... I'm not too worried about the overall API
... I think we may need to get involved wrt layering
... So consider secure vs. insecure keys
... There's a use-case challenge there which hasn't been fully
recognized
... How can you talk about embedding MD5 in Javascript, when Javascript
strings aren't byte arrays, for example, of layering.
<dka> Does it make sense to schedule some f2f time in London on this
with the wg chair Virginie?
TBL: A well-defined coercion from string to bytes, would that help?
AR: Absolutely -- TAG could usefully push for this
TBL: From Crypto to TC39?
AR: Probably better from the TAG
<slightlyoff> +1
DKA: Virginie, WG Chair of Crypto, is in France, perhaps could come to
F2F to talk about this, and on Security on the Web topic
... Other topics?
Upcoming events
DKA: Heads up wrt IETF in London, with STRINT workshop ahead
<timbl> IETF is March 2-7, 2014
<dka> [18]https://www.w3.org/2014/strint/
DKA: Strengthening the Internet against Prevasive Monitoring
... Feeds into HTTP-2 discussion of TLS
... Adjourned
__________________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [19]scribe.perl version 1.135
([20]CVS log)
$Date: 2013-12-20 16:12:49 $
References
1. http://www.w3.org/
2. http://www.w3.org/2013/12/12-tagmem-irc
3. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/12/12-minutes.html#item01
4. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/12/12-minutes.html#item02
5. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/12/12-minutes.html#item03
6. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/12/12-minutes.html#item04
7. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/12/12-minutes.html#item05
8. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/12/12-minutes.html#item08
9. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/12/12-minutes.html#item09
10. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/12/12-minutes.html#item10
11. http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG/Planning/2014-01-F2F
12. https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/blob/c218958ce2c9b655282bd1ebdbe93e8902b423e1/2013/08/Push%20API.md
13. https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/push/raw-file/tip/index.html
14. https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/push/raw-file/tip/index.html#navigator-interface
15. https://github.com/twirl/spec-reviews/blob/ceb61bdc7969f730475d23e338c31b05071b9ee6/2013/10/Web%20Animations.md
16. http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/web-animations/
17. https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/blob/master/2013/11/WebCrypto.md
18. https://www.w3.org/2014/strint/
19. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
20. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
--
Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh
10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440
Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk
URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/
[mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it is forged spam]
Received on Friday, 20 December 2013 16:24:35 UTC