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Draft minutes of 1 Dec 2011 teleconference

From: Jonathan A Rees <rees@mumble.net>
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 15:29:50 +0000
Message-ID: <CAGnGFMLhY4P_4kSd13nqJ1CwNYwZtoicOT7+JFKXkaVMvAiSZw@mail.gmail.com>
To: www-tag@w3.org
Draft minutes of the 1 December 2011 TAG teleconference are at

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/12/01-minutes.html

and in plain text below.

- Jonathan

-----------------------------------------------------------

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

              Technical Architecture Group Teleconference

01 Dec 2011

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Nov/0118.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Masinter, Jonathan_Rees, DKA, Yves, JeniT, TimBL,
          Ashok_Malhotra, plinss, Noah_Mendelsohn, ht

   Regrets

   Chair
          Noah Mendelsohn

   Scribe
          Jonathan Rees

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Convene
         2. [6]Administrative items
         3. [7]Web Applications: Client-side state
         4. [8]F2F Planning
         5. [9]Polyglot last call
         6. [10]Security
         7. [11]Hyperlinks and copyright
         8. [12]Pending review items
     * [13]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 01 December 2011

   <scribe> scribenick: jar

   <scribe> scribe: Jonathan Rees

Convene

   Note: incorrect regrets in agenda. Jonathan and Larry are both here

   regrets for 8 Dec: JAR and Henry doing workshop, DKA unavailable

   <Yves> Yves to scribe next week's meeting

   <JeniT> DKA: not here next week, will be following week

   regret: JAR for Dec 15 (at yet another workshop)

   RESOLUTION: Minutes of 17 Nov are approved
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/11/17-minutes

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/11/17-minutes

   <ht> Sorry I'm late, just dialing in

   noah: Any word on nominees? Deadline was yesterday

Administrative items

   ashok: No word yet.

   (agenda review)

Web Applications: Client-side state

   ashok: Have not heard back re comments
   ... Comments were fairly small. Bjoern Hoehrmann and Jonathan Rees
   ... JAR asked for definitions of acronyms, and 2 other complaints,
   all addressed.

   <NoahM> Proposed RESOLUTION: The TAG approves publication of
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
   130 as a TAG Finding

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130

   <DKA> +1

   <Yves> +1

   <JeniT> +1

   <timbl_> +1

   jar: +1

   <Larry> +1

   <NoahM> RESOLUTION: The TAG approves publication of
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
   130 as a TAG Finding

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130

   noah: Just some editorial stuff left

   <NoahM> ACTION: Ashok, with help from Noah to publish
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
   130 as a TAG Finding [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130
     [18] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Ashok,

   <NoahM> ACTION: Ashok with help from Noah to publish
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
   130 as a TAG Finding [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130
     [20] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-634 - With help from Noah to publish
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
   130 as a TAG Finding [on Ashok Malhotra - due 2011-12-08].

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130

   <NoahM> ACTION-597?

   <trackbot> ACTION-597 -- Ashok Malhotra to publish a final draft for
   public review of the finding on Application State -- due 2011-12-01
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [22]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/597

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/597

   <NoahM> close ACTION-597

   <trackbot> ACTION-597 Publish a final draft for public review of the
   finding on Application State closed

   <NoahM> ACTION-598?

   <trackbot> ACTION-598 -- Yves Lafon to publish as a note what had
   been the FPWD (Raman's draft) on client side state -- due 2012-01-15
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/598

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/598

   (discussion of closing out the rec track document first started by
   Raman, which was mooted by the new finding)

   noah: Yves please continue with 598 when he sees fit
   ... Yves please update the product page

F2F Planning

   <NoahM> We'll go through list of TAG products:
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/

     [24] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/

   noah: Fragid work - goal of a completed finding in December. Maybe
   we changed the plan in Edinburgh

   ht: I won't get to any work until Jan [or so]

   noah: Note that HT says he believes producing a draft is something
   he and Peter will do, but it won't be ready for Jan F2F

   <NoahM> ACTION: Henry to update product page for Frag IDS and Mime
   types, to include realistic goals and dates [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]

     [25] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-635 - Update product page for Frag IDS and
   Mime types, to include realistic goals and dates [on Henry Thompson
   - due 2011-12-08].

   noah: So probably not for F2F discussion, but we'll see

   <NoahM> Tentative conclusion, don't discuss this at F2F, unless
   Henry or Peter proposes a particular issue

   (continuing to go through list of product pages)

   <NoahM> URI Definition Discovery ?

   <NoahM> [26]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/defininguris.html

     [26] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/defininguris.html

   <NoahM> JAR: Still on track for calling for change proposals, etc.
   by end of year. So we'll have something read

   noah: JAR please update product page

   <NoahM> MIME architecture for the Web ?

   <NoahM> 31 December 2011: Final TAG Report on MIME architecture,
   most likely in the form of a TAG Finding

   larry: The MIME work has separated into 2 pieces. use of MIME as a
   registry (extension param), feeding into action item related to
   registries in general. And what should the MIME [process] actually
   say

   <NoahM> ACTION-531?

   <trackbot> ACTION-531 -- Larry Masinter to draft document on
   architectural good practice relating to registries -- due 2011-07-30
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/531

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/531

   <NoahM> We should add this action to the product page

   larry: action 531. That's a key part of how we do MIME. I'm closer
   now to having a draft ready for the F2F.

   noah: We're going for a finding - that's what we're talking about
   yes?
   ... i.e. what you're working on is the doc that the product page
   talks about?

   larry: will have drafts of both of those.

   <NoahM> We will have things to discuss in January.

   noah: Larry, can you this week propose product page updates, that
   would make the answers to my questions obvious?

   <NoahM> ACTION: Larry to update product page for Mime and the Web
   recorded in [28]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-636 - Update product page for Mime and the
   Web [on Larry Masinter - due 2011-12-08].

   <NoahM> [29]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/#active

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/#active

   <NoahM> API Minimization ?

   <NoahM> DKA: Hoping to do some work, and hand it off

   noah: Dan, what will become of API minimization?

   <NoahM> DKA: possibly newly elected members who replace me?

   (discussion of TAG election and appointments)

   <NoahM> DKA: A slot for minmization is likely a good thing

   noah: Updating arch pages?

   <NoahM> ACTION-609?

   <trackbot> ACTION-609 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft initial cut at
   [30]http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/identifiers -- due
   2011-10-25 -- OPEN

     [30] http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/identifiers

   <trackbot> [31]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/609

     [31] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/609

   <NoahM> ACTION-610?

   <trackbot> ACTION-610 -- Jeni Tennison to draft initial cut at
   [32]http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats -- due
   2011-11-29 -- OPEN

     [32] http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats

   <trackbot> [33]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/610

     [33] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/610

   <NoahM> ACTION-611?

   <trackbot> ACTION-611 -- Larry Masinter to draft initial cut at
   [34]http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/protocols -- due 2011-11-15
   -- OPEN

     [34] http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/protocols

   <trackbot> [35]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/611

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/611

   <JeniT> I will do something for January

   <NoahM> Thank you!

   <NoahM> NM: Question is, can we get something substantial to discuss
   in January

   larry: I'll get together with Dan, and exchange email with Jeni

   <NoahM> NM: OK, so I'll plan to schedule a slot in January, form of
   input TBD

   <NoahM> No project page, but we do have:
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/PrivacyFriendlyWeb.html

     [36] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/PrivacyFriendlyWeb.html

   NM: Privacy ?

   dka: Privacy project is not scoped

   <NoahM> Privacy is a maybe for F2F, Dan and Ashok to advise

   <NoahM> Persistence of Identifiers ?

   <NoahM> NM: Things to discuss

   <NoahM> HT: Think so, at least report from workshop

   ht: There will be a workshop report at least, which will include
   proposals

   NM: Client-side storage?

   <NoahM> ACTION-632?

   <trackbot> ACTION-632 -- Ashok Malhotra to frame issues around
   client-side storage work Due 2011-12-06 -- due 2011-12-06 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [37]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/632

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/632

   <NoahM> ACTION-523

   <NoahM> ACTION-523?

   <trackbot> ACTION-523 -- Ashok Malhotra to (with help from Noah)
   build good product page for client storage finding, identifying top
   questions to be answered on client side storage -- due 2011-12-20 --
   OPEN

   <trackbot> [38]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/523

     [38] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/523

   ashok: I need to talk to Art Barstow about this (storage) - may
   connect us with some help
   ... then decide how to go forward. Time at F2F for brief update
   would be good

   noah: This seems ready to gel. There was stuff to do but didn't have
   time

   ashok: I expect to have a couple of messages worked out

   noah: Relationship between caching and local storage, what happens
   to URIs, etc
   ... Microdata?

   jeni: By then there will be a document from the TF. F2F would be
   nice so we can go over it

   <NoahM> HTML.next

   <DKA> +1 to a html.next brainstorm

   <plinss> +1

   noah: I was hoping to get background done in Dec

   <NoahM> ACTION: Noah to ask PLH to join us in Dec. to bring us up to
   speed on HTML.next, and also join in F2F discussion [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]

     [39] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc

   <Larry> we shouldn't discuss HTML.next without at least a briefing
   of current discussions and ideas, so that the TAG isn't working
   independently of the rest of the community on this topic.

   yves: I am working on http ssl hybi, stuff like that. We should be
   able to discuss that

   <NoahM> ACTION-618?

   [trackbot is AWOL]

   <NoahM> With help from Larry, Noah, and Jeni to prepare analysis on
   development around HTTP, like spdy, ssl use, websocket...

   <NoahM> YL: Will have progress on ACTION-618 soon, should discuss at
   F2F.

   noah: The schedule is starting to look borderline too full

Polyglot last call

   <NoahM> ACTION-560?

   <NoahM> Henry Thompson - Review HTML polyglot last call Due
   2011-06-06 - Due: 2011-11-30 - PENDING REVIEW

   ht: There was a response to my email, saying HT didn't

   timbl: Does this make the issue bigger?

   [40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Nov/0120.html

     [40] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Nov/0120.html

   <NoahM> Reopening ACTION-560

   ht: the spec says the prefixes aren't wrong/only says that prefixes
   are allowed, but doesn't offer any support for them/

   <NoahM> ACTION-560?

   <trackbot> ACTION-560 -- Henry Thompson to review HTML polyglot last
   call Due 2011-06-06 -- due 2011-12-06 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [41]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/560

     [41] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/560

Security

   <NoahM> ACTION-607?

   <trackbot> ACTION-607 -- Larry Masinter to find an appropriate way
   to make available
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web
   App Sec working group -- due 2011-09-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW

     [42] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html

   <NoahM> "I went to the first F2F of the Web Application Security
   working group and asked them to accept the document as input, and to
   consider maintaining a roadmap of web application security issues,
   even those that they don't take up directly...I believe they agreed
   to take it on."

   larry: Haven't confirmed.
   ... I think we can move on

   <Larry> www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/

   <Larry> [43]http://www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/ lists it as an "Input
   Document"

     [43] http://www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/

   larry: it's listed as an input document on their home page.

   <NoahM> close ACTION-607

   <NoahM> ACTION-607?

   <trackbot> ACTION-607 -- Larry Masinter to find an appropriate way
   to make available
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web
   App Sec working group -- due 2011-09-22 -- CLOSED

     [44] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html

   <trackbot> [45]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/607

     [45] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/607

Hyperlinks and copyright

   <NoahM> Proposal form Jeni for moving forward:
   [46]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2011Nov/0045.html

     [46] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2011Nov/0045.html

   jeni: Dan and I met last week re next steps before the F2F.
   ... Asked our experts for feedback; we'll meet in a week or two to
   go over it
   ... We'd like to do a long document as rec, supplemented with
   shorter, more opinionated pieces that highlight particular issues

   dka: This approach was in reaction to Rigo's TPAC comments
   ... but we really felt a doc with broad scope would be a good thing,
   and a necessary prerequisite for focussed pieces
   ... Haven't had much luck getting concrete promises from our
   experts...

   noah: Is it just Rigo, or do others feel as he does?...

   <NoahM> F2F discussion TBD

   <Larry> ask for public feedback?

   <Larry> ask AC members? if we're not getting feedback we need from a
   community, don't we have other ways of getting that, than private
   pleading?

   noah: I'll look for a F2F proposal for this topic in a couple of
   weeks

   ashok: I'm very positive on the short pieces idea, have Jeni & Dan
   thought about what those would be?

   <JeniT>
   [47]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2011Nov/0045.html

     [47] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2011Nov/0045.html

   <ht> +1 to working on public-facing messages at f2f

   ashok: A goal like, to have 4 pithy messages, would be good

   <NoahM> ACTION-541?

   <trackbot> ACTION-541 -- Jeni Tennison to helped by DKA to produce a
   first draft of terminology about (deep-)linking etc. -- due
   2011-11-29 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [48]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/541

     [48] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/541

   <NoahM> ACTION-541 Due 2011-12-20

   <trackbot> ACTION-541 Helped by DKA to produce a first draft of
   terminology about (deep-)linking etc. due date now 2011-12-20

Pending review items

   <NoahM> ACTION-576?

   <trackbot> ACTION-576 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from Henry to
   figure out impact of RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially
   in 3023bis -- due 2011-10-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [49]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/576

     [49] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/576

   <NoahM> ACTION-509?

   <trackbot> ACTION-509 -- Jonathan Rees to communicate with RDFa WG
   regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue -- due
   2011-11-29 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [50]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509

     [50] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509

   <NoahM> NM: So, 509 and 576 are substantially the same?

   <NoahM> JAR: We can close 576, but there's more to be done on 509

   <NoahM> close ACTION-576

   <trackbot> ACTION-576 With help from Henry to figure out impact of
   RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially in 3023bis closed

   jeni: Volunteer to take on 509.

   <NoahM> Assigning ACTION-509 to Jeni and closing ACTION-576

   <NoahM> close ACTION-576

   <trackbot> ACTION-576 With help from Henry to figure out impact of
   RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially in 3023bis closed

   <NoahM> ACTION-509?

   <trackbot> ACTION-509 -- Jeni Tennison to communicate with RDFa WG
   regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue -- due
   2011-12-13 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [51]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509

     [51] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509

   <NoahM> ACTION-623?

   <trackbot> ACTION-623 -- Larry Masinter to pull together plans for
   IETF<-> TAG coordination at TPAC -- due 2011-11-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [52]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/623

     [52] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/623

   <NoahM> close ACTION-623

   <trackbot> ACTION-623 Pull together plans for IETF<-> TAG
   coordination at TPAC closed

   <Larry> note there is now an IETF Application Area Directorate (of
   which Henry and I are members). (The Directorate was the review
   board)

   <Larry>
   [53]http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/ApplicationsAreaDi
   rectorate

     [53] http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/ApplicationsAreaDirectorate

   <NoahM> ACTION: Yves to help Noah figure out best ways, if at all,
   for TAG to participate in IETF paris Due: 2011-12-20 [recorded in
   [54]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]

     [54] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-638 - Help Noah figure out best ways, if
   at all, for TAG to participate in IETF paris Due: 2011-12-20 [on
   Yves Lafon - due 2011-12-08].

   <Larry>
   [55]http://www.ietf.org/meeting/cutoff-dates-2012.html#IETF83

     [55] http://www.ietf.org/meeting/cutoff-dates-2012.html#IETF83

   ADJOURNED

   <timbl_> Thank you everyone esp Noah for chairing

   <NoahM> Thank you Tim!

   <timbl_> The TAG election will probably run til Jan 9. Cf TAG F2F
   Jan 4-6

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Ashok with help from Noah to publish
   [56]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
   130 as a TAG Finding [recorded in
   [57]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
   [NEW] ACTION: Ashok, with help from Noah to publish
   [58]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111
   130 as a TAG Finding [recorded in
   [59]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
   [NEW] ACTION: Henry to update product page for Frag IDS and Mime
   types, to include realistic goals and dates [recorded in
   [60]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
   [NEW] ACTION: Larry to update product page for Mime and the Web
   recorded in [61]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
   [NEW] ACTION: Noah to ask PLH to join us in Dec. to bring us up to
   speed on HTML.next, and also join in F2F discussion [recorded in
   [62]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves to help Noah figure out best ways, if at all, for
   TAG to participate in IETF paris Due: 2011-12-20 [recorded in
   [63]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc]

     [56] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130
     [57] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
     [58] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130
     [59] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
     [60] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
     [61] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
     [62] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
     [63] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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