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Draft minutes of TAG teleconference of 21 May 2009

From: <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 17:39:36 -0400
To: www-tag@w3.org
Cc: Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
Message-ID: <OF39199CD1.E54BC100-ON852575C2.0076AB92-852575C2.0076CC26@lotus.com>
Draft minutes of the TAG teleconference of 21 May 2009 are available at 
[1].  A text-only version is appended to this email.  Thank you.

Noah

[1] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/05/21-minutes

--------------------------------------
Noah Mendelsohn 
IBM Corporation
One Rogers Street
Cambridge, MA 02142
1-617-693-4036
--------------------------------------


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                              TAG Telcon

21 May 2009

Attendees

   Present
          Jonathan_Rees, John_Kemp, DanC, NoahM, Ashok_Malhotra,
          Masinter

   Regrets

   Chair
          Noah

   Scribe
          Larry Masinter

Contents

     * [2]Topics
         1. [3]approval of minutes
         2. [4]publishing client-side URL parameters as WD
         3. [5]action-204 security discussion (jar) will table to next
            week
         4. [6]issue-24 Content-type sniffing
         5. [7]request from Rick Jelliffe that the TAG should be
            involved in future of XML Schema
         6. [8]F2F agenda
         7. [9]review overdue and pending action items
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <NoahM> scribenick: masinter

   <scribe> Scribe: Larry Masinter

   Date: 21 May 2009

   Roll call: raman is missing, ht may or may not be on irc

   future regrets? Ashok: 11th of june

   Larry out June 2 to 17th

   next week HT is scribe, DanC is likely next after that

approval of minutes

   RESOLUTION: minutes for 7th are approved (no objections)

   minutes for 14th?

   RESOLUTION: minutes of 14th are approved

publishing client-side URL parameters as WD

   NoahM: Ian Jacobs reminded us that if we intend this for rec will
   require call for Patent Exclusion
   ... I am not a laywer, check with Ian/Dan for questions
   ... informally, any concern about publishing a call for exclusion?
   ... Problem: there is a dated link to a document which is 404, could
   someone please fix this

   <DanC> umm... [11]http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-hash-in-uri-20090415/
   ...

     [11] http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-hash-in-uri-20090415/

   <NoahM> [12]http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-hash-in-url-20090415/

     [12] http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-hash-in-url-20090415/

   <NoahM> [13]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/hash-in-url

   <NoahM> [14]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/findings
   . action should be to go fix the link from "findings" to the TR

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/findings

   <scribe> ACTION: noah to fix TAG page

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-269 - Fix TAG page [on Noah Mendelsohn -
   due 2009-05-28].

   NoahM: reminded of agenda item to flag actions as trivial: can be
   closed without discussion

   <DanC> 269 is done. revision 1.27 date: 2009/05/21 17:15:14

   <jar> me example of action annotated as trivial:
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/267

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/267

   <DanC> close action-269

   <trackbot> ACTION-269 Fix TAG page closed

action-204 security discussion (jar) will table to next week

   action-204?

   <trackbot> ACTION-204 -- Jonathan Rees to talk with Mark Miller
   about web app security and report back -- due 2009-05-12 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/204

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/204

   RESOLUTION: table to next week

issue-24 Content-type sniffing

   issue-24?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-24 -- Can a specification include rules for
   overriding HTTPcontent type parameters? -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/24

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/24

   action-261?

   <trackbot> ACTION-261 -- Larry Masinter to followup with Mark
   Nottingham and Lisa D. regarding Adam Barth's sniffing draft -- due
   2009-05-13 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/261

     [18] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/261

   <DanC> ACTION-261 due next week

   <trackbot> ACTION-261 Followup with Mark Nottingham and Lisa D.
   regarding Adam Barth's sniffing draft due date now next week

   <DanC> ACTION-261 due 26 May

   <trackbot> ACTION-261 Followup with Mark Nottingham and Lisa D.
   regarding Adam Barth's sniffing draft due date now 26 May

   thanks Dan

   Larry only recently reviewed document

   NoahM:We'll defer worrying about ACTION-257 until progress is made
   on ACTION-261.

request from Rick Jelliffe that the TAG should be involved in future of
XML Schema

   NoahM: how much progress can we make?
   ... if we did get involved, would want Henry and Tim to comment

   <DanC> (I couldn't find mail from TimBL on this... oh... guess I
   missed [19]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/05/14-minutes#item05 ...)

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2009/05/14-minutes#item05

   NoahM: there is a link to Rick's clarification of his request in
   today's agenda. His suggestion, if I understand it, is that the XML
   Schema spec is not appropriately layered. Thus, the W3C should hold
   up XSD 1.1 at CR to allow for such a layering to be invented. We
   need to decide what the TAG's role in this is wrt/ W3C process, and
   also whether any TAG members advocate our getting involved in this.
   It is in our charter that Tim has the option to ask us for advice at
   any point, should he wish to, but that's up to him to initiate.

   Ashok: Rick has a very specific recommendation, to either start a
   working group or, within the working group, to produce a smaller,
   focused language

   NoahM: I would like to know whether any TAG members feel we should
   undertake work on this.

   <jar> LM: How does this issue hold up against potential-issue
   acceptance criteria?

   <LM>: Think about our criteria for taking on TAG work, such as being
   asked by a working group, etc. ... There is another venue for this
   discussion. Not clear whom we would influence. I'm not specifically
   opposing his proposal.

   <LM>: I'm remembering our discussion at the last F2F about criteria
   for undertaking TAG work. I don't think we should do this now, but
   should explain why.

   jar: this is one of those issues where the questions cut across a
   lot of different WGs in W3C
   ... XSD does seem like it's worth a look, trying to follow rdf:text,
   XSD is in the center around OWL, SPARQL and ...., and they don't
   know where to go

   nm: could you clarify how the issues you are relating with rdf:text
   vs. RickJ's specific proposal

   jar: It's my instinct that there ought to be some interaction around
   this. When a single working group has trouble dealing with this.

   <DanC> (the analogy seems to be that both rdf:text and XSD 1.1
   comments involve/impact multiple WGs)

   ashok: what jar is talking about is specific datatypes, and that we
   ought to be able to add datatypes. Rick's proposal is almost
   entirely about Schema Structures, and so is pretty much unrealted to
   rdf:text.

   these things are both important but different

   jar:OK

   <DanC> (boy it takes a long time to not talk about something. ;-)

   <LM>: Can we publish out criteria for work, and point to that as a
   reason?

   <DanC> (are those criteria already written down, LMM?)

   yes, point to it

   NoahM: I would like to see where we stand, and ask you to choose
   informally among two options for what to do right now. Noting that
   nobody here today has been willing to say that the TAG should work
   on this, but that we are missing two members who may be concerned,
   should we:
   1) Decide now, as Larry suggested, that we have considered Rick's
   request, have no opinoin on the merits, but are not getting involved
   (will check with HT and Tim before committing)
   - or -
   2. Defer until next week

   Ashok: in favor of 2

   Larry: in favor of 1

   DanC can support both

   JK: goes for 2

   jar: abstain

   noah: abstain

   <NoahM> JK: want more evidence that there's something we should work
   on

   <DanC> (are you sure you want "more evidence"? I bet what you really
   want is _less_, John)

   <DanC> (i.e. a pointer to one specific thing)

   RESOLUTION: leave this for a week, see if any discussion, will come
   back briefly possibly just to decide whether to take on the issue

F2F agenda

   <NoahM> Raman would like to make Web Application State a topic. We
   should have specific deliverables for F2F.

   issue-60?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-60 -- Web Application State Management -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/60

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/60

   <DanC> (where did raman make that suggestion? looking...)

   NoahM: I went back and looked at the agenda & minutes to see what
   have we talked about since last F2F
   ... I did not survey the mailing list for topics, however.

   <DanC> (I lean on [21]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/agenda
   for agenda building... looking at it now...)

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/agenda

   issue-41?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- What are good practices for designing
   extensible languages and for handling versioning? -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [22]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/41

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/41

   action-259?

   <trackbot> ACTION-259 -- Larry Masinter to kick off discussion of
   versioning principles to apply to HTML, engage jonathan and henry.
   -- due 2009-05-01 -- CLOSED

   <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/259

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/259

   <trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/259

     [24] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/259

   quote: "I'm thinking the above might serve as the initial content
   and outline of a finding around versioning and HTML."

   from
   [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009May/0004.html

     [25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009May/0004.html

   (discussion about use of tracker, action, and issues, not minuted)

   <NoahM> From minutes of last week: noah: Versioning discussion seems
   wrapped up for now...

   <jar> danc, don't all open actions constitute implicit actions, on
   the "shepherd" (raiser) to drive them to completion?

   <DanC> to some extent, yes, an open issue constitute and implicit
   action, but tracker is tuned for explicit actions (based on
   experience that that's the way people work)

   <DanC> ("raman's request" -- I can't seem to find that; help?)

   <scribe> ACTION: Larry to provide additional material for review

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-270 - Provide additional material for
   review [on Larry Masinter - due 2009-05-28].

   <jar> lm: "additional" because some material has already been
   provided

   <Zakim> jar, you wanted to volunteer

   action-270

   action-270?

   <trackbot> ACTION-270 -- Larry Masinter to provide additional
   material for review -- due 2009-05-28 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [26]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/270

     [26] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/270

   <DanC> (indeed, people react more to "do you like this?" than "what
   do you want?")

   <scribe> ACTION: noah to work with jar to draft strawman agenda for
   F2F

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-271 - Work with jar to draft strawman
   agenda for F2F [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2009-05-28].

   (how do i change the due-date of an action?)

   NoahM: few things that are big, high prority and judge meeting
   success, and then a bigger list of smaller items

review overdue and pending action items

   action-255?

   <trackbot> ACTION-255 -- John Kemp to contact Sam to ask (a) how can
   the TAG be helpful (b) offer set up phone call involving Sam & 1 or
   2 others -- due 2009-05-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/255

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/255

   DanC doesn't want to mark it closed.

   RESOLUTION: action-255 due next week

   <trackbot> ACTION-255 Contact Sam to ask (a) how can the TAG be
   helpful (b) offer set up phone call involving Sam & 1 or 2 others
   due date now next week

   <jar> john, please edit the action to point to your email to Sam

   the action should imply that the results of the contact are
   reported, in email or verbally at a meeting, what the response was,
   too

   RESOLUTION: action-255 due next week

   action-267?

   <trackbot> ACTION-267 -- Jonathan Rees to [Trivial] Fix bad link in
   4/2 minutes -- due 2009-05-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/267

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/267

   <NoahM> [29]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue

   <DanC> . [30]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/agenda

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/agenda

   RESOLUTION: closed (trivial)

   <DanC> ACTION-23 due next week

   <trackbot> ACTION-23 track progress of #int bug 1974 in the XML
   Schema namespace document in the XML Schema WG due date now next
   week

   resolution wait for HT on action-23.

   <DanC> ACTION-231?

   <trackbot> ACTION-231 -- Larry Masinter to draft replacement for
   \"how to use conneg\" stuff in HTTP spec -- due 2009-05-13 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [31]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/231

     [31] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/231

   <DanC> action-231 due next week

   <trackbot> ACTION-231 Draft replacement for \"how to use conneg\"
   stuff in HTTP spec due date now next week

   RESOLUTION: Larry to report next week on status

   <DanC> .. [32]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/agenda

     [32] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/agenda

   <DanC> (apologies, but I don't know the date of the ftf; I neglected
   to put it on [33]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/#mtg )

     [33] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/#mtg

   <DanC> (help?)

   <DanC> ACTION-201 due 1 aug 2009

   <trackbot> ACTION-201 Report on status of AWWSW discussions due date
   now 1 aug 2009

   RESOLUTION: change date to 1 aug

   <DanC> action-116 due 1 Aug 2009

   <trackbot> ACTION-116 Align the tabulator internal vocabulary with
   the vocabulary in the rules
   [34]http://esw.w3.org/topic/AwwswDboothsRules, getting changes to
   either as needed. due date now 1 Aug 2009

     [34] http://esw.w3.org/topic/AwwswDboothsRules

   DanC, tag f2f is June 23-26

   RESOLUTION: due 1 aug

   <DanC> ACTION-254?

   <trackbot> ACTION-254 -- Larry Masinter to send email to www-tag
   announcing issue-63 -- due 2009-05-13 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [35]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/254

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/254

   <DanC> ACTION-254 due next week

   <trackbot> ACTION-254 Send email to www-tag announcing issue-63 due
   date now next week

   action-261?

   <trackbot> ACTION-261 -- Larry Masinter to followup with Mark
   Nottingham and Lisa D. regarding Adam Barth's sniffing draft -- due
   2009-05-26 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [36]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/261

     [36] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/261

   action-257?

   <trackbot> ACTION-257 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule TAG to revisit
   progress in IETF/HTML liaison on content sniffing (invite Mark Not
   or Lisa D?) -- due 2009-05-15 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [37]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/257

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/257

   <DanC> close ACTION-257

   <trackbot> ACTION-257 Schedule TAG to revisit progress in IETF/HTML
   liaison on content sniffing (invite Mark Not or Lisa D?) closed

   <DanC> action-257?

   <trackbot> ACTION-257 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule TAG to revisit
   progress in IETF/HTML liaison on content sniffing (invite Mark Not
   or Lisa D?) -- due 2009-05-15 -- CLOSED

   <trackbot> [38]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/257

     [38] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/257

   <DanC> action-257?

   <trackbot> ACTION-257 -- Noah Mendelsohn to invite Mark Not or Lisa
   D to revisit progress in IETF/HTML liaison on content sniffing --
   due 2009-05-15 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [39]http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/257

     [39] http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/257

   <DanC> " 75th IETF - Stockholm, Sweden

   <DanC> (July 26-31, 2009) "

   <DanC> -- [40]http://www.ietf.org/

     [40] http://www.ietf.org/

   RESOLUTION: Noah to ask mnot and LisaD about schedule and
   availability, scheduling around IETF and vacation times

   ACTION-264

   <DanC> (last communication from tlr was Wed, 6 May 2009 17:34:48
   +0200 09

   meeting adjourned

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Larry to provide additional material for review
   [NEW] ACTION: noah to fix TAG page
   [NEW] ACTION: noah to work with jar to draft strawman agenda for F2F

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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