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RE: How to name what you get back? was: Terminology Question concerning Web Architecture and Linked Data

From: Hans Teijgeler <hans.teijgeler@quicknet.nl>
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:34:29 +0200
To: "'Pat Hayes'" <phayes@ihmc.us>
Cc: "'Chris Bizer'" <chris@bizer.de>, "'Frank Manola'" <fmanola@acm.org>, "'Tim Berners-Lee'" <timbl@w3.org>, <www-tag@w3.org>, <semantic-web@w3.org>, "'Linking Open Data'" <linking-open-data@simile.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <000801c7d031$5880a7f0$6c7ba8c0@hans>

Pat,
Please see below at <HT>.
Regards,
Hans

-----Original Message-----
From: Pat Hayes [mailto:phayes@ihmc.us] 
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 0:02
To: Hans Teijgeler
Cc: 'Chris Bizer'; 'Frank Manola'; 'Tim Berners-Lee'; www-tag@w3.org;
semantic-web@w3.org; 'Linking Open Data'
Subject: RE: How to name what you get back? was: Terminology Question
concerning Web Architecture and Linked Data

>Sandro,
>
>You should read it well: Chris speaks about "the description.......that 
>identifies....". That is not necessarily a name.

<PH> True, but Sando's point is that this description is returned when you
use a particular name (URI) to access the thing identified. If you use a
different name of the very same thing, you may well get a different
description returned. So the description is OF the thing identified, but is
ASSOCIATED with the name, in the sense that only this name may get this
particular description returned to you by HTTP.

<HT> Interesting to note again how important it is to have an unambiguous
definition of the terms we use. When I hear the word "name" I don't think of
"URI", but of something like "Pat Hayes". Now I understand that for you a
URI is a name (rather than an "identifier"), I think that we are in violent
agreement.


<PH> What bothers me is the idea that a description can be said to be
'identifying', which suggests (especially in this context where URIs are
called
'identifiers') that it contains enough information to uniquely identify the
resource, which is likely to often not be the case.

<HT> If I say "the oak in my garden" that uniquely identifies that tree,
provided that there is only one oak in my garden, and provided that "my
garden" could be linked in some way to GPS coordinates, a street address, or
the like. And yes, if I want the world to know that my oak is healthy I need
to assign a URI to it. But that URI is just a handle that does not tell
anything about my oak, not even that it *is* an oak. The information
"behind" that URI does.

<HT> Another common case of descriptive identification is the information
you have to fill in on a landing card when you want to enter a country. Your
name, address, nationality, passport number, date and place of birth, and
occupation is requested as a minimum. Just to narrow it down to a unique
descriptive identification. And still people slip through, leading to the
addition of biometric information.

<HT> Under 'name' the Webster states, amongst many others, "a designating or
identifying expression".


>  I can give you the
>description:
>1) is a guy
>2) sits at the bar
>3) wears a hat
>etc
>and that identifies a person of which I do not know the name. We call that
descriptive identification.
>
>As I said, many things don't even have a name.

<PH> True, but then they will never have such a description returned.

<HT> True.


>  And besides that, some Mr
>Shakespeare once said "what's in a name? That which we call a rose by 
>any other name would smell as sweet."

<PH> But you might get a different description of it when you call it 'rosa
centifolia'.

<HT> Except for the smell :-)

Pat

>
>Regards,
>Hans
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sandro Hawke [mailto:sandro@w3.org]
>Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 22:41
>To: Hans Teijgeler
>Cc: 'Sandro Hawke'; 'Chris Bizer'; 'Frank Manola'; 'Tim Berners-Lee'; 
>www-tag@w3.org; semantic-web@w3.org; 'Linking Open Data'
>Subject: RE: How to name what you get back? was: Terminology Question 
>concerning Web Architecture and Linked Data
>
>
>"Hans Teijgeler" <hans.teijgeler@quicknet.nl> writes:
>>  The name is just one of a multitude of aspects, and besides that 
>> there  are many things without a name (just an ID).
>
>Chris started this by asking:
>     "The term XXX refers to the description of a non-information resource
>     that a client obtains by dereferencing a specific URI that identifies
>     this non-information resource."
>
>That "specific URI that identifies this non-information resource" --
>that's "a name", isn't it?   That's what I understand a name to be.
>
>       -- Sandro

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Received on Friday, 27 July 2007 09:34:56 GMT

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