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RE: TAG opinion on XML Binary Format

From: <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 22:46:36 -0400
To: "Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler)" <RogerCutler@chevrontexaco.com>
Cc: "Rice, Ed (HP.com)" <ed.rice@hp.com>, public-xml-binary@w3.org, www-tag@w3.org
Message-ID: <OF8CE51BEE.04A599F0-ON8525700C.000F3587-8525700C.000F8E22@lotus.com>

Roger Cutler writes:

> It seems to me that the statement "such cases are relatively uncommon" 
below is highly dubious

FWIW, while I am in complete agreement with the overall position taken by 
the TAG on Binary XML, I do share your concern with the statement above. 
Note that it is a quote from the Architecture of the World Wide Web 
Recommendation.  Maybe it should be reconsidered if that Recommendation is 
ever republished, and perhaps we should not have included it without 
qualification in the note sent earlier today.   (speaking for myself and 
not officially for the TAG)

--------------------------------------
Noah Mendelsohn 
IBM Corporation
One Rogers Street
Cambridge, MA 02142
1-617-693-4036
--------------------------------------








"Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler)" <RogerCutler@chevrontexaco.com>
Sent by: www-tag-request@w3.org
05/24/05 03:02 PM

 
        To:     "Rice, Ed (HP.com)" <ed.rice@hp.com>, www-tag@w3.org, 
public-xml-binary@w3.org
        cc:     (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM)
        Subject:        RE: TAG opinion on XML Binary Format


It seems to me that the statement "such cases are relatively uncommon" 
below is highly dubious, given the variety of usage cases documented by 
the XBC workgroup.  However, the call for benchmarks seems reasonable to 
me, as does the advice that such benchmarks should involve the "best shot" 
for the text case.  One thing that is unclear to me, however -- does this 
"best shot" include the use of MTOM and XOP for binary attachments?  If 
so, the distinction between text and binary becomes a little unclear to 
me.  I must admit that as far as the usage case I personally submitted to 
the XBC it seems to me that MTOM could probably be made to "do the job", 
although a true binary standard would do it more neatly and flexibly.  My 
understanding, however, is that there are other usage cases for which MTOM 
won't really work, but it seems to me that documenting this very clearly 
would be a good idea.
 
On a truly trivial note, do you think you could adjust your email client 
so the line wraps work in my email client (Outlook)?  Your paragraphs each 
display for me as one very long line.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: public-xml-binary-request@w3.org 
[mailto:public-xml-binary-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Rice, Ed (HP.com)
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:26 PM
To: www-tag@w3.org; public-xml-binary@w3.org
Subject: TAG opinion on XML Binary Format

 
TAG opinion on XML Binary Format
 
The TAG has reviewed in detail the documents [1,2,3,4] prepared by the XBC 
workgroup [5].  While we very much appreciate the significant progress 
that these notes represent, the TAG believes that more detailed analysis 
is needed before a W3C Binary XML Recommendation is sufficiently 
justified.  We are taking no position at this time as to whether Binary 
XML will prove to be warranted, as there seem to be good arguments on both 
sides of that question.  Rather, we are suggesting that further careful 
analysis is needed before the W3C commits to a direction.
 
The TAG believes there are disadvantages as well as potential advantages 
that will result from even a well crafted Binary XML Recommendation.  The 
advantages are clear: a successful binary format is likely to provide 
speed gains or size reductions, at least for certain use cases.  The 
drawbacks are likely to include reduced interoperability with XML 1.0 and 
XML 1.1 software, and an inability to leverage the benefits of text-based 
formats.  These are important concerns.  Quoting from the Web Architecture 
document[6]:
 
   "The trade-offs between binary and textual data
   formats are complex and application-
   dependent. Binary formats can be substantially
   more compact, particularly for complex
   pointer-rich data structures. Also, they can be
   consumed more rapidly by agents in those cases
   where they can be loaded into memory and used
   with little or no conversion. Note, however,
   that such cases are relatively uncommon as such
   direct use may open the door to security issues
   that can only practically be addressed by
   examining every aspect of the data structure in
   detail.
 
   [snip] 
Received on Wednesday, 25 May 2005 02:46:54 UTC

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