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minutes, March 8 2012 SVG WG Telcon

From: Dirk Schulze <dschulze@adobe.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 13:36:31 -0800
To: "www-svg@w3.org" <www-svg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <7956D436-CA64-44E1-ADB3-812314B617BD@adobe.com>
Here are the meeting minutes from March 8 2012 of the SVG WG:


      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                   SVG Working Group Teleconference

08 Mar 2012


      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0143.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-irc


          +1.415.832.aaaa, +61.2.980.5.aabb, krit, cyril,
          +, Tav, ed, ChrisL




     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Finishing SVG 2 Requirements
         2. [6]Improved text for fragment identifiers link traversal
     * [7]Summary of Action Items

   <trackbot> Date: 08 March 2012


   <scribe> scribe: krit

   scribenic: krit

   <scribe> scribenick: krit

   ed: first topic time changes
   ... australia with the latest change?
   ... 3 weeks time all transit. Then we review chnages to times

   cyril: I think we should switch to morning in europe

   Tav: doesn't work for the damn americans

   <ChrisL> lol

   cyril: doesn't work for east coste

   cabanier: what about west coast

   cyril: haha

   Tav: 1h later in europe one hour later in australia last year

   =01&year=2012&hour=20&min=00&sec=0&p1=0 shows 20.00 UTC May 1, 2012

      [8] http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=05&day=01&year=2012&hour=20&min=00&sec=0&p1=0

   krit: cabanier: 1 hour later is fine for us

   <ed> so, sydney 6am... maybe not great

   cabanier: 1 earlier is not that good for australia

   cyril: we should check with cameron

   krit: stay for now?

   ed: stay till 3 weeks when all countries switched

   cyril: 2 more weeks

   ed: keep the time for 2 more weeks

   … more discussions about time shift

   ed: no decision now?

   all: lets stay for the next 2 weeks

   resolution: keep the time for 2 weeks

   <scribe> ACTION: erik will send a mail for time shift and time
   change [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3245 - Will send a mail for time shift and
   time change [on Erik Dahlström - due 2012-03-15].

   next topic: template for tests

   ChrisL: mails on mailing list


     [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0142.html

   Tav: cameron said that html tag inside svg and try to add html
   inside svg you'' break

   ChrisL: cameron suggested a lot more chnages
   ... he seems to wnat to have a whole new layer

   Tav: link and meta are not part of svg

   ChrisL: we had a resolution to add them
   ... anyway we should ask peter
   ... wecould add it to our svg naemspace

   ed: html5's parsing algorithm would break out into html mode if we
   didn't parent the link and meta elements inside a foreignobject

   ChrisL: it seems to be a clear resolution that al changes might
   break html5 parsing. for those test we need something different

   Tav: cameron suggestions is a bit simplper

   ChrisL: i didn't like it

   <ChrisL> I think he has oversimplified and it will loose

   Tav: he is not removing anything
   ... he just implementes in another way
   ... he is just not put html5 into ahead


   Tav: th eproblem with meta tag.
   ... he still has a data tag

   Tach if an html5 parser finds a link in a svg tag

   ChrisL: what happens?

   Tav: I don't know

   ChrisL: html parser don't care about the tags at all
   ... a framwork in place to start writing tests
   ... otherwise they don't get it wrten

   ed: I prefer simplified structure
   ... no namespaces

   Tav: I agree

   ChrisL: we had the test criteria … where did it went?

   Tav: the test harness has to be modified to do that

   ChrisL: is that in the head and a meta
   ... simplicity is goood


   Tav: link to the different parts of the spec
   ... and which parts it needs to pass

   <Tav> [11]http://wiki.csswg.org/test/format

     [11] http://wiki.csswg.org/test/format

   Tav: test assertions:

   ChrisL: it is all in the content attribute
   ... no markup at all

   Tav: above in the spec links, there is a link that tells you what
   part of the spec gets tested

   ChrisL: thats fine

   <cyril> [12]http://w3c-test.org/framework/ seems broken

     [12] http://w3c-test.org/framework/

   <ed> the tags that break out of "foreign" mode (aka SVG in html):
   n (link is not among those)

     [13] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#parsing-main-inforeign

   ChrisL: ok

   ed: meta does break out

   Tav: link is ok

   ed: yes

   Tav: you still need sth for the tags
   ... description is ok

   ed: could we use svg metadata element?


     [14] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/metadata.html

   ed: just sth to put test meta data on
   ... should be fine

   ChrisL: would be fine than
   ... peter should know what we want to do

   ed: metadata should replace meta eleemnt
   ... link lists all the tags that break out
   ... link element would get unknown svg element
   ... needs verification

   ChrisL: so no other namespace, no head
   ... just metadata?


     [15] http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3Csvg%3E%0D%0A%3Clink%2F%3E%0D%0A%3Ccircle%20r%3D5%2F%3E%0D%0A%3C%2Fsvg%3E

   ed: I dont see a circle in opera and safari

   <ChrisL> <!DOCTYPE html>

   <ChrisL> <svg>

   <ChrisL> <link/>

   <ChrisL> <circle r=200>

   ChrisL: I see the circle in FF with this example

   Tav: I don't

   <ChrisL> ff11beta6

   ed: I don't see a circle either

   Tav: now I see
   ... I put a space before the slash


     [16] http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Csvg%3E%0A%3Clink%2F%3E%0A%3Ccircle%20r%3D100%20%2F%3E%0A%3C%2Fsvg%3E

   cyril: we should move on

   ChrisL: we should have a decision

   ed: link is fine

   resolution: we will use the link element as proposed. Use metadata
   instead of head and meta

   <ed> example: instead of <meta name="flags" content="TOKENS" /> we
   will use <metadata name="flags" content="TOKENS" />

   Tav: what cameron sugeested with metadat


   Tav: basically


     [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0142.html

   ed: something else on his proposal

   Tav: yes, the very last thing
   ... that we diagree too
   ... other issues with copy right… a list that ChrisL sent

   ed: Tav'll send a final proposal to the list


     [18] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Testing_Requirements#Test_SVG_File_Template

   ed: peter should review

   ChrisL: ed can you edit the wiki?

   ed: ok

   <ChrisL> s/ ed can you edit the wiki?/I am editing the wiki

   ChrisL: metadata for flags


   <ed> <metadata name="flags" content="TOKENS" />

   Tav: the desc tag for the text description

   ed: should it be long or short descr?

   Tav: as long as you need/

   ChrisL: if we agree, than we ask peter

   Tav: ok
   ... what about copyright

   ed: use BSD for the suite

   ChrisL: put the license into one place and link to it

   Tav: I agree

   <scribe> ACTION: ChrisL will edit the wiki page and mention how to
   add license and copyright [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3246 - Will edit the wiki page and mention
   how to add license and copyright [on Chris Lilley - due 2012-03-15].

   Tav: what about revision?
   ... we have version controll system, so no extra revisions

   ChrisL: we don't put the number in the file
   ... not productive to do that
   ... the same for the test frame

   ed: agree

   Tav: I tried to add the testing to the rep, but it failed

   ed: ChrisLdo you edit the wiki and mention what we do about

   ChrisL: I will

   … discussion about problems for Tav to submit stuff

   ed: back to the requirements


     [20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Testing_Requirements#Test_SVG_File_Template

   ed: resolve accept the structure of tests

   <ed> agreed to the section: Structure after 8 March 2012 telcon

   ed: anyone against this template?


   resolution: Accept the testing template

Finishing SVG 2 Requirements


     [21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Xlink_additional_attributes_on_the_.3Ca.3E_element

   ChrisL: we should drop xlink on <a>

   ed: xlink:role, xlink:arcrole and xlink:title:title might make sense

   ChrisL: title element is better than xlink:title
   ... we should use title element

   ed: no strong objections
   ... fine for ,e

   resolution: drop xlink attributes role, arcole, title

   <ChrisL> resolution: SVG2 will drop xlink attributes role, arcole,

   resolution: SVG 2 will drop the xlink attributes role, arcole, title


     [22] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#indicating_links

   ChrisL: improve text is fine


     [23] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#linking-IndicatingLinks

   ed: we should keep it, but remove xlink:title from the spec

   resolution: SVG 2 will include Improved text for the indicating

   <ChrisL> resolution: svg2 will port the text from svgt1.2

     [24] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/single-page.html#linking-IndicatingLinks

   ed: next one

   <scribe> new scripting featuress

Improved text for fragment identifiers link traversal

   ed: svg tiny is more simple
   ... on media fragment
   ... they are not incompatible

   <ChrisL> resolution: svg2 will merge the svg1.1se text and the
   svgt12 text on fragment identifiers link traversal

   <ChrisL> oh and add media fragments

   ChrisL: what about media fragments?

   ed: we should look at it
   ... is part of the same feature
   ... more the same thing
   ... rephrase resolution?

   <ChrisL> ACTION: chrisl to merge the svg1.1se and svgt1.2 fragment
   identifier text and consider adding in media fragments for partial
   images [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3247 - Merge the svg1.1se and svgt1.2
   fragment identifier text and consider adding in media fragments for
   partial images [on Chris Lilley - due 2012-03-15].

   ed: procsessing inline scripts


     [26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Added_text_for_Processing_Inline_Script

   cyril: i expected that there were differences between svg 1.1 and
   1.2 tiny

   ChrisL: html5 has similar things
   ... we should compatible to html5

   ed: reasonable

   ChrisL: we should look at it in detail first
   ... needs an action

   cyril: we already have a resolution for async,. sooo

   ed: the section on tiny is very short
   ... you have to look at the type attribute and so on
   ... there is nothing similar in SVG 1.1

   resolution: SVG 2 will define how inline scriptable content will be
   processed, in compatible way to HTML5


     [27] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#script_element_text

   ed: new scriptiing features
   ... we should port it over 'script element text'

   resolution: SVG 2 will merge SVG1.1SE and SVG 1.2 Tiny on script
   element text

   ed: next one change erik to SVG WG and copy paste resolution on wiki


     [28] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Script_Processing

   <cyril> RESOLUTION: SVG 2 will use the relevant parts from 1.2T and
   align with the html script element.

   ed: next is animation


     [29] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_Animations_chapter

   <ChrisL> erik: svgt1.2 defines what happens when there are errors in
   a begin-value-list

   ed: tiny is more specific what to do on attribute for wrong content

   resolution: SVG 2 will apply changes of SVG 1.2 tiny on animation
   ... SVG 2 will apply changes from SVG 1.2 tiny to the SVG animation

   ed: fonts are no modification in tiny


     [30] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#the_xlink:href_attribute_on_.3CforeignObject.3E

   ed extenisibility we have the xlink:href attribute on foreignObject

   krit: do we have the same rules like for iframe if we support

   ed: customers want to use it for some magic things, but basically as
   a plugin frame
   ... it would be fine to have it. resolution?

   krit: so. should get an action to check security problems

   cabanier: most rules of iframe have to apply here as well

   resolution: SVG 2 will support xlink:href on foreignObject element
   after security verification

   <scribe> ACTION: ed will verify that xlink:href won't introduce
   security issues on foreignObject [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-3248 - Will verify that xlink:href won't
   introduce security issues on foreignObject [on Erik Dahlström - due

   10 items left + 11 without decision

   <ed> trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: chrisl to merge the svg1.1se and svgt1.2 fragment
   identifier text and consider adding in media fragments for partial
   images [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: ChrisL will edit the wiki page and mention how to add
   license and copyright [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: ed will verify that xlink:href won't introduce
   security issues on foreignObject [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: erik will send a mail for time shift and time change
   [recorded in

   [End of minutes]

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     [36] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
     [37] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Succeeded: s/html5 might break the parsing algorithm there/html5's pars
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Found ScribeNick: krit
Default Present: +1.415.832.aaaa, +61.2.980.5.aabb, krit, cyril, +33.9.
53.77.aacc, Tav, ed, ChrisL
Present: +1.415.832.aaaa +61.2.980.5.aabb krit cyril + T
av ed ChrisL
Agenda: [39]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMa
Found Date: 08 Mar 2012
Guessing minutes URL: [40]http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: chrisl ed erik

     [39] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0143.html
     [40] http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-svg-minutes.html

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