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Minutes, 22 September 2011 SVG WG telcon

From: Erik Dahlstrom <ed@opera.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 00:32:55 +0200
To: "public-svg-wg@w3.org" <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.v18d85twgeuyw5@mbp-2.local>
Minutes as html:

     http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html

and as text:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

22 Sep 2011

    [2]Agenda

       [2]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/0145.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, tbah, ChrisL, +1.425.868.aabb,
           +1.425.868.aacc

    Regrets
           DS, CC

    Chair
           SV_MEETING_CHAIR

    Scribe
           vhardy

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]SVG2 Planning.
      * [6]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 22 September 2011

    <scribe> Scribenick: vhardy

    ed: Topic: pre-TPAC meeting
    ... are we settled to have an SVG WG meeting Oct 27/28.
    ... I do not think we have a location yet.
    ... I do not think that anybody took an action to host the meeting.

    cl: I think vh had an action.

    vhardy: I do not recall that, but I could look into it.

    <ed>
    [7]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/0143
    .html

       [7]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/0143.html

    ed: Patrick said he could host at Microsoft.

    <scribe> ACTION: ed to confirm with Patrick Dengler that he can host
    the Oct. 27/28 meeting in Santa Clara (or close by) [recorded in
    [8]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3114 - Confirm with Patrick Dengler that
    he can host the Oct. 27/28 meeting in Santa Clara (or close by) [on
    Erik Dahlström - due 2011-09-29].

    <ed>
    [9]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/0147
    .html

       [9]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/0147.html

    ed: Doug sent a reminder to everybody to register for the TPAC.
    ... we are meeting on Thursday/Friday.

    cl: CSS WG is meeting on Sunday.

    ed: vhardy asked if we should have an FX meeting during TPAC.

    cl: they are meeting Sunday/Monday/Tuesday.

    ed: we usually schedule a half day.
    ... do we want to have an FX meeting as one of the SVG WG days?

    cl: we could do the meeting during the SVG group meeting days.

    <scribe> ACTION: ed to coordinate with the CSS WG chairs on joint FX
    meeting during TPAC. Agree on meeting date/time. [recorded in
    [10]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3115 - Coordinate with the CSS WG chairs
    on joint FX meeting during TPAC. Agree on meeting date/time. [on
    Erik Dahlström - due 2011-09-29].

SVG2 Planning.

    [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page

      [11] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page

    [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing
    _List_Feedback

      [12]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback

    [13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions

      [13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions

    ed: I will try to work on the use cases and requirements document
    next week, first working on the wiki, then on a document.
    ... heycam is away. I am not sure if he will be able to help when he
    comes back.

    cl: last week, at the typography conference, people were interested
    in SVG for glyph definitions. I have good examples of what people
    want. There was interest from Adobe and Microsoft during the
    conference.

    <scribe> ACTION: Chris to document typographic requirements for SVG
    gathered during the recent typography conference he attended.
    [recorded in
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3116 - Document typographic requirements
    for SVG gathered during the recent typography conference he
    attended. [on Chris Lilley - due 2011-09-29].

    ed: I have see there is a bit more emails on the mailing list,
    request for new features. Has anybody adding this to the
    requirements page.

    cl: there was a comment about device RGB on the mailing list. Did I
    miss a discussion on that?
    ... I do not want to head backwards. It is not going to help us long
    term.

    ed: no, I do no think you missed a conversation.

    cl: there was also feedback from Rik.

    vhardy: I think Rik will have a more crystalized position for Adobe
    by TPAC.

    ed: there was also a requirement for stroke position (inside,
    outside path).

    cl: I thought it was above or below fill. The inside/outside is a
    little harder to implement. But it is a good one to have.

    vhardy: I think it is a great requirement (both above/below and
    inside/outside).

    cl: implementations may be able to do it in different ways. Would be
    good to have.

    ed: anybody could go over the recent email and make sure that we
    have all the input on the wiki page?

    <scribe> ACTION: Chris to go over recent email threads on
    requirements (strokes for example) and add to the requirements wiki
    page. [recorded in
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3117 - Go over recent email threads on
    requirements (strokes for example) and add to the requirements wiki
    page. [on Chris Lilley - due 2011-09-29].

    ed: the list is long. We need to decide on what we will have in SVG
    2.0. This is part of the document I'll start writing up soon.

    <ed>
    [16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing
    _List_Feedback

      [16]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback

    ed: everybody. It would be great if everybody could add their
    comments on the features.
    ... there is a template for doing that.

    cl: could we group the features that are the same or very similar.

    ed: some features do not have a lot of description, and it makes it
    harder to judge their relevance/importance.
    ... one of the big items is the namespace requirements clean-up.
    ... is that something we can resolve today.

    cl: we have a resolution to drop the xlink:href attribute and
    replace it with href attribute.
    ... for SVG if it is XML then you need to declare the SVG namespace,
    but not if it is in HTML5.
    ... for XML Events namespace which we used in SVG Tiny 1.2. We wont
    need that. We will reference DOM Events and not XML Events in SVG
    2.0.
    ... it might be as simple as importing things in our own namespace.
    ... the last thing is that for custom data, in XML you do that with
    things in your own namespace. In HTML5, it is data-*. We want to
    define that in SVG so that it is clear that for SVG elements, then
    the data-* should be reserved and mean the same thing as in HTML.

    ed: what about XML id and XML base?

    cl: HTML5 only uses base and id instead of xml:base and xml:id.

    ed: SVG Tiny 1.2 requires both id and xml:id.

    cl: there were questions about using both.

    ed: I would like to drop xml:base and xml:id. There is not that much
    content that would break if we change that.
    ... if we go with that, we should come up with a way to make legacy
    content work.

    cl: for SVG 2.0, we should put the id and base attributes in the
    per-element partition and say they mean the same thing as in the
    HTML5 spec.

    <rect id="rect_1" base="[17]http://mysite.com" ... />

      [17] http://mysite.com/

    cl: is base the same in HTML5 as in xml:base?

    ed: I think they are the same, but I am not 100% sure.
    ... it is the same feature, it should behave the same. There may be
    minor differences.

    <scribe> ACTION: Chris to document the changes around namespace
    handling in SVG 2.0 (id, base, attributes, etc..). [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3118 - Document the changes around
    namespace handling in SVG 2.0 (id, base, attributes, etc..). [on
    Chris Lilley - due 2011-09-29].

    ed: for xlink, I wonder if we drop the xlink prefix, we may get
    conflicts with some SVG attributes. e.g., xlink:title. There may be
    other clashes, but I have not checked. The ones used are xlink:title
    and xlink:href.

    cl: yes. In 1.1, for the ones other than xlink:href we said they are
    for documentation, nothing else.

    <cyril> or maybe type vs. xlink:type ?

    ed: ok, we can resume the discussion when we have the wiki page
    done.
    ... there is a big thing with improving the SVG DOM. I want to see
    if there is anyone here who wants to make changes to the DOM that
    are backwards incompatible. Or do we agree on backward
    compatibility?

    <pdengler> what do you mean by partially backward compatible

    vhardy: I would be worried about not being backward compatible
    because there is content using the DOM.

    ed: by partially backward compatible, I would like to change the
    things that are not implemented, not well implemented or not
    interoperable. But otherwise, be backward compatible.

    vhardy: sounds good.

    <pdengler> I agree that we need to maintain backward compatability;
    if there are areas that are maybe really not travelled we could
    explore

    ed: there are some minor parts of the DOM that are not clear or
    cannot work (e.g., issues with % values).

    <pdengler> Agreed, interop is key and if we are not interoperable,
    these are areas that we could consider

    cl: do you have a list?

    <ed>
    [19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing
    _List_Feedback#Improve_the_DOM

      [19]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback#Improve_the_DOM

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to raise issues on things that are currently
    broken in the DOM design. [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action06]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3119 - Raise issues on things that are
    currently broken in the DOM design. [on Erik Dahlström - due
    2011-09-29].

    <krit> What about using CSS Units instead of SVG units where
    possible. If we want to add CSS animations and transitions, this
    could help the process a lot.

    <krit> This could affect SVG DOM

    ed: how do CSS units differ from SVG units?

    cl: they are the same, except that we allow things to be in user
    units, and CSS does not.

    <krit> SVGLength has more untis IIRC

    <krit> just as an example

    cl: but I think there is equivalence all the time.

    <krit> SVGTransform is different to CSSTransform

    cl: for angle, SVG also always requires a unit.

    ed: when we put SVG in HTML, that would be a problem about
    specifying the units.

    <krit> SVG DOM might not notice any difference if baseVal points to
    the CSS property value and animVal points to the computed value

    cl: when you use the CSS syntax, then you use the CSS syntax. The
    different parsing rules are only on the presentation attributes.

    ed: there are new units added to the CSS spec. that would be nice to
    support in SVG. That should just work.
    ... for example the 'vh' units (viewport height).
    ... there are some others.
    ... they are units that we do not require at the moment.

    cl: we have to decide the spec. we depend on. In a f2f meeting, we
    decided the CSS spec. we should depend on and the CSS Values and
    Units is one of them. So this is taken care of.

    ed: ok then, let's move on.
    ... for the SVG transform v.s., CSS transforms?

    vhardy: there is an FX task force action on Dean, Simon and myself
    to deliver a consolidated spec. that works on CSS and SVG in a
    unified way. This problem will be addressed there.

    ed: there was a proposal for allowing alternative transforms such as
    mesh, cone, etc.. from David Dailey?

    <krit> We have a problem with SVGLengthList..

    cl: this collides with the mapping work. We should ask the mapping
    task force. They are all non-linear transforms.

    <krit> This is also not covered in the discussion on CSS animations
    of x-Attribute

    cl: we can split this between the mapping related transforms and the
    other ones.

    <krit> Is there something similar in CSS?

    cl: there was another request to do the polar coordinate systems and
    also a request about perspective transforms.
    ... these are 3 separate discussions.

    <krit> I tried to implement CSS transforms beside SVG transforms. It
    would work for us in WebKit

    <krit> one would get multiplied after the other

    <krit> I still think it is a good idea to combine them like we do
    for other CSS properties (style attributes)

    <pdengler> i think we should treat transforms just like any other
    SVG properity. That is one overrides the other.

    ed: Going over the list, there is nothing more that had a lot of
    comments on it.
    ... Everybody please go and update the wiki with your comments.
    ... Moving on to the list of current resolutions.

    [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions

      [21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions

    ed: we had a resolution to publish an SVG integration spec.
    ... we need Doug for this. I am not sure if he has made any changes
    to it.
    ... on the resolutions page, I noted that there is no rationale nor
    actions for most of them. We should have both for resolutions,
    especially for difficult resolutions. Actions may not always be
    needed, but often they would be needed.
    ... for example on constructive geometry.

    cl: there is no action required for this because it is already in
    the vector effects spec.

    vhardy: may be we could go over the list during the f2f and agree on
    Action Items where needed or add rationale if not clear.

    ed:
    [22]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Rename_s
    top-path_to_.27d.27_or_.27path.27_.28Coons_patch_syntax.29
    ... is the proposal up to date?

      [22]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Rename_stop-path_to_.27d.27_or_.27path.27_.28Coons_patch_syntax.29

    tbah: yes.

    <tbah> [23]http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/MESH/Mesh.html

      [23] http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/MESH/Mesh.html

    <scribe> ACTION: tbah to update the
    [24]http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/MESH/Mesh.html proposal to reflect
    [25]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Rename_s
    top-path_to_.27d.27_or_.27path.27_.28Coons_patch_syntax.29 [recorded
    in [26]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action07]

      [24] http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/MESH/Mesh.html
      [25]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Rename_stop-path_to_.27d.27_or_.27path.27_.28Coons_patch_syntax.29

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3120 - Update the
    [27]http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/MESH/Mesh.html proposal to reflect
    [28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Rename_s
    top-path_to_.27d.27_or_.27path.27_.28Coons_patch_syntax.29 [on
    Tavmjong Bah - due 2011-09-29].

      [27] http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/MESH/Mesh.html
      [28]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Rename_stop-path_to_.27d.27_or_.27path.27_.28Coons_patch_syntax.29

    ed: we have a resolutaion on adding the mesh gradient.

    <krit> Is there a easy way to implement mesh gradients with usual
    graphic libraries and basic drawing operations?

    cl: do we have an agreement on how to proceed with the spec.?

    ed: we have the spec. in place. We need to get jwatt to describe how
    to go about we start editing the spec.

    tbah: once we have that, I can add the gradient mesh feature.

    <scribe> ACTION: tbah to edit the SVG 2.0 spec. and add the gradient
    mesh specification. [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action08]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3121 - Edit the SVG 2.0 spec. and add the
    gradient mesh specification. [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2011-09-29].

    ed:
    [30]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG2_wil
    l_use_CSS3_definitions_for_text_layout_.28whitespacing.2C_bidi.2C_et
    c.29_that_is_not_specific_to_SVG
    ... this seems like a fairly large change.

      [30]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG2_will_use_CSS3_definitions_for_text_layout_.28whitespacing.2C_bidi.2C_etc.29_that_is_not_specific_to_SVG

    cl: the action should be to look at the changes that need to happen
    and then propose before including.

    ed: heycam seems to be the best person to look into this?

    cl: yes.

    <scribe> ACTION: heycam to assess required changes to SVG 2.0 text
    section to complete resolution
    [31]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG2_wil
    l_use_CSS3_definitions_for_text_layout_.28whitespacing.2C_bidi.2C_et
    c.29_that_is_not_specific_to_SVG [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action09]

      [31]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG2_will_use_CSS3_definitions_for_text_layout_.28whitespacing.2C_bidi.2C_etc.29_that_is_not_specific_to_SVG

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3122 - Assess required changes to SVG 2.0
    text section to complete resolution
    [33]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG2_wil
    l_use_CSS3_definitions_for_text_layout_.28whitespacing.2C_bidi.2C_et
    c.29_that_is_not_specific_to_SVG [on Cameron McCormack - due
    2011-09-29].

      [33]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG2_will_use_CSS3_definitions_for_text_layout_.28whitespacing.2C_bidi.2C_etc.29_that_is_not_specific_to_SVG

    ed: next is
    [34]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#CSS_Spec
    _dependencies.
    ... do we add this to the reference section.

      [34]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#CSS_Spec_dependencies.

    <scribe> ACTION: cl to add CSS spec. dependencies in the reference
    section and add proper usage from within the specification text.
    [recorded in
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action10]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3123 - Add CSS spec. dependencies in the
    reference section and add proper usage from within the specification
    text. [on Chris Lilley - due 2011-09-29].

    ed:
    [36]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_DO
    M_method_for_getting_glyph_path_data

      [36]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_DOM_method_for_getting_glyph_path_data

    <scribe> ACTION: vhardy to propose API for
    [37]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_DO
    M_method_for_getting_glyph_path_data [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action11]

      [37]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_DOM_method_for_getting_glyph_path_data

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3124 - Propose API for
    [39]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_DO
    M_method_for_getting_glyph_path_data [on Vincent Hardy - due
    2011-09-29].

      [39]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_DOM_method_for_getting_glyph_path_data

    ed:
    [40]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_pa
    th_rotation_command

      [40]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_path_rotation_command

    <scribe> ACTION: heycam to make a proposal and add to spec.
    [41]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_pa
    th_rotation_command [recorded in
    [42]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action12]

      [41]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_path_rotation_command

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3125 - Make a proposal and add to spec.
    [43]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_pa
    th_rotation_command [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-09-29].

      [43]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_path_rotation_command

    ed: Resolutions
    ...
    [44]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#We_won.2
    7t_add_buffered-rendering_to_SVG_2_unless_implementor_feedback_indic
    ates_that_it_is_needed

      [44]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#We_won.27t_add_buffered-rendering_to_SVG_2_unless_implementor_feedback_indicates_that_it_is_needed

    vhardy: describes how people use 3d transforms to turn on buffered
    rendering. I think the attribute is needed.

    ed: I think the discussion was that it is possible to detect what
    needs to be rasterized.
    ... but it seems true that people use 3d transforms to do buffers
    today.

    vhardy: ok. I am happy to proceed and raise this again based on
    implementaiton or usage feedback.

    ed:
    [45]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_wi
    ll_mandate_support_for_SVG_Tiny_fonts_support.2C_and_SVG_Full_fonts_
    will_be_specified_in_a_separate_module
    ... there was a lot of feedback on that.

      [45]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_will_mandate_support_for_SVG_Tiny_fonts_support.2C_and_SVG_Full_fonts_will_be_specified_in_a_separate_module

    <scribe> ACTION: ed to rip out the font chapter from the SVG spec.
    and replace it with SVG tiny fonts from SVG Tiny 1.2. Then move the
    SVG Full fonts to a separate module.
    [46]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_wi
    ll_mandate_support_for_SVG_Tiny_fonts_support.2C_and_SVG_Full_fonts_
    will_be_specified_in_a_separate_module. [recorded in
    [47]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action13]

      [46]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_will_mandate_support_for_SVG_Tiny_fonts_support.2C_and_SVG_Full_fonts_will_be_specified_in_a_separate_module.

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3126 - Rip out the font chapter from the
    SVG spec. and replace it with SVG tiny fonts from SVG Tiny 1.2. Then
    move the SVG Full fonts to a separate module.
    [48]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_wi
    ll_mandate_support_for_SVG_Tiny_fonts_support.2C_and_SVG_Full_fonts_
    will_be_specified_in_a_separate_module. [on Erik Dahlström - due
    2011-09-29].

      [48]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_will_mandate_support_for_SVG_Tiny_fonts_support.2C_and_SVG_Full_fonts_will_be_specified_in_a_separate_module.

    <krit> SVG Tiny would not be a module?

    <pdengler> I thought we were going to completely moduarlize SVG ?

    cl: I don't mind taking over the SVG Full Fonts module.

    <krit> How much of SVG 1.1 fonts are implemented in other svg
    viewers? I'm more interessted in the differences. Do some viewers
    dupport more than SVG Fonts tiny?

    cl: we would drop the general font mechanism we use and then only
    use the bits needed for integration in open type.

    <ed> krit: batik does AFAIK, and maybe ASV

    <scribe> ACTION: chris to rework the SVG Full font module as an open
    type glyph table. [recorded in
    [49]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action14]

    <krit> Ok, so we should keep SVG Fonts 1.1 completely?

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3127 - Rework the SVG Full font module as
    an open type glyph table. [on Chris Lilley - due 2011-09-29].

    <krit> .. as a module

    <pdengler> I think we should keep the SVG Fonts as a separate module

    <pdengler> Then "other" fonts should be handled in Text?

    <pdengler> We should "make" the SVG Fonts

    cl: eventually, this would be an opentype module. Through the woff
    support, you would get to the module.

    pdengler: ok. This is not svg specific then?

    cl: yes, the svg render does not see it directly, it only sees it as
    a woff font. It could be used in printing for example.

    pdengler: yes, SVG fonts are useful in some contexts.
    ... I just wanted to support the modularization of the SVG spec. and
    support what the industry and browsers need.

    cl: I don't think there is a problem there.

    ed:
    [50]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_wi
    ll_mandate_the_support_for_external_style_sheets.2C_style_element_an
    d_style_attributes_all_with_CSS_syntax

      [50]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_will_mandate_the_support_for_external_style_sheets.2C_style_element_and_style_attributes_all_with_CSS_syntax

    <scribe> ACTION: cl to make the changes to the SVG 2.0 spec. for
    [51]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_wi
    ll_mandate_the_support_for_external_style_sheets.2C_style_element_an
    d_style_attributes_all_with_CSS_syntax [recorded in
    [52]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action15]

      [51]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_will_mandate_the_support_for_external_style_sheets.2C_style_element_and_style_attributes_all_with_CSS_syntax

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3128 - Make the changes to the SVG 2.0
    spec. for
    [53]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_wi
    ll_mandate_the_support_for_external_style_sheets.2C_style_element_an
    d_style_attributes_all_with_CSS_syntax [on Chris Lilley - due
    2011-09-29].

      [53]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_will_mandate_the_support_for_external_style_sheets.2C_style_element_and_style_attributes_all_with_CSS_syntax

    ed:
    [54]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_wi
    ll_keep_viewport-fill_and_viewport-fill-opacity_for_zoom

      [54]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_will_keep_viewport-fill_and_viewport-fill-opacity_for_zoom

    <scribe> ACTION: cyril to edit SVG 2.0 for
    [55]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_wi
    ll_keep_viewport-fill_and_viewport-fill-opacity_for_zoom [recorded
    in [56]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action16]

      [55]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_will_keep_viewport-fill_and_viewport-fill-opacity_for_zoom

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3129 - Edit SVG 2.0 for
    [57]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_wi
    ll_keep_viewport-fill_and_viewport-fill-opacity_for_zoom [on Cyril
    Concolato - due 2011-09-29].

      [57]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_will_keep_viewport-fill_and_viewport-fill-opacity_for_zoom

    ed:
    [58]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#We.27ll_
    move_to_using_reftests_as_soon_as_is_feasible

      [58]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#We.27ll_move_to_using_reftests_as_soon_as_is_feasible

    cl: this seems to be working now. It is a bit annoying to not see
    the reference and the test at the same time, but it does work.

    ed:
    [59]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#We.27ll_
    consider_the_connector_proposal

      [59]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#We.27ll_consider_the_connector_proposal

    cl: are there in the spec?

    ed: the resolution was to consider a proposal if there was one.
    ... there was an action that I'll add to the table.

    <ed> ACTION-2681?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2681 -- Doug Schepers to write up the connector
    proposal -- due 2009-10-08 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [60]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2681

      [60] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2681

    ed:
    [61]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Remove_t
    he_restriction_of_tref_pointing_to_only_an_SVG_document_fragment

      [61]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Remove_the_restriction_of_tref_pointing_to_only_an_SVG_document_fragment

    <scribe> ACTION: heycam to edit the spec. for
    [62]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Remove_t
    he_restriction_of_tref_pointing_to_only_an_SVG_document_fragment.
    [recorded in
    [63]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action17]

      [62]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Remove_the_restriction_of_tref_pointing_to_only_an_SVG_document_fragment.

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3130 - Edit the spec. for
    [64]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Remove_t
    he_restriction_of_tref_pointing_to_only_an_SVG_document_fragment.
    [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-09-29].

      [64]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Remove_the_restriction_of_tref_pointing_to_only_an_SVG_document_fragment.

    <scribe> ACTION: heycam to edit the spec. to broaden the references
    in SVG (any use of href, e.g., a gradient from another SVG
    fragment). [recorded in
    [65]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action18]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3131 - Edit the spec. to broaden the
    references in SVG (any use of href, e.g., a gradient from another
    SVG fragment). [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-09-29].

    <ed> trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Chris to document the changes around namespace
    handling in SVG 2.0 (id, base, attributes, etc..). [recorded in
    [66]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: Chris to document typographic requirements for SVG
    gathered during the recent typography conference he attended.
    [recorded in
    [67]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Chris to go over recent email threads on requirements
    (strokes for example) and add to the requirements wiki page.
    [recorded in
    [68]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: chris to rework the SVG Full font module as an open
    type glyph table. [recorded in
    [69]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action14]
    [NEW] ACTION: cl to add CSS spec. dependencies in the reference
    section and add proper usage from within the specification text.
    [recorded in
    [70]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action10]
    [NEW] ACTION: cl to make the changes to the SVG 2.0 spec. for
    [71]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_wi
    ll_mandate_the_support_for_external_style_sheets.2C_style_element_an
    d_style_attributes_all_with_CSS_syntax [recorded in
    [72]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action15]
    [NEW] ACTION: cyril to edit SVG 2.0 for
    [73]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_wi
    ll_keep_viewport-fill_and_viewport-fill-opacity_for_zoom [recorded
    in [74]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action16]
    [NEW] ACTION: ed to confirm with Patrick Dengler that he can host
    the Oct. 27/28 meeting in Santa Clara (or close by) [recorded in
    [75]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: ed to coordinate with the CSS WG chairs on joint FX
    meeting during TPAC. Agree on meeting date/time. [recorded in
    [76]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: ed to rip out the font chapter from the SVG spec. and
    replace it with SVG tiny fonts from SVG Tiny 1.2. Then move the SVG
    Full fonts to a separate module.
    [77]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_wi
    ll_mandate_support_for_SVG_Tiny_fonts_support.2C_and_SVG_Full_fonts_
    will_be_specified_in_a_separate_module. [recorded in
    [78]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action13]
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to raise issues on things that are currently
    broken in the DOM design. [recorded in
    [79]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action06]
    [NEW] ACTION: heycam to assess required changes to SVG 2.0 text
    section to complete resolution
    [80]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG2_wil
    l_use_CSS3_definitions_for_text_layout_.28whitespacing.2C_bidi.2C_et
    c.29_that_is_not_specific_to_SVG [recorded in
    [81]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action09]
    [NEW] ACTION: heycam to edit the spec. for
    [82]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Remove_t
    he_restriction_of_tref_pointing_to_only_an_SVG_document_fragment.
    [recorded in
    [83]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action17]
    [NEW] ACTION: heycam to edit the spec. to broaden the references in
    SVG (any use of href, e.g., a gradient from another SVG fragment).
    [recorded in
    [84]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action18]
    [NEW] ACTION: heycam to make a proposal and add to spec.
    [85]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_pa
    th_rotation_command [recorded in
    [86]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action12]
    [NEW] ACTION: tbah to edit the SVG 2.0 spec. and add the gradient
    mesh specification. [recorded in
    [87]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action08]
    [NEW] ACTION: tbah to update the
    [88]http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/MESH/Mesh.html proposal to reflect
    [89]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Rename_s
    top-path_to_.27d.27_or_.27path.27_.28Coons_patch_syntax.29 [recorded
    in [90]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action07]
    [NEW] ACTION: vhardy to propose API for
    [91]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_DO
    M_method_for_getting_glyph_path_data [recorded in
    [92]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html#action11]

      [71]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_will_mandate_the_support_for_external_style_sheets.2C_style_element_and_style_attributes_all_with_CSS_syntax
      [73]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_will_keep_viewport-fill_and_viewport-fill-opacity_for_zoom
      [77]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG_2_will_mandate_support_for_SVG_Tiny_fonts_support.2C_and_SVG_Full_fonts_will_be_specified_in_a_separate_module.
      [80]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#SVG2_will_use_CSS3_definitions_for_text_layout_.28whitespacing.2C_bidi.2C_etc.29_that_is_not_specific_to_SVG
      [82]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Remove_the_restriction_of_tref_pointing_to_only_an_SVG_document_fragment.
      [85]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_path_rotation_command
      [88] http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/MESH/Mesh.html
      [89]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Rename_stop-path_to_.27d.27_or_.27path.27_.28Coons_patch_syntax.29
      [91]  
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Resolutions#Add_a_DOM_method_for_getting_glyph_path_data

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [93]scribe.perl version 1.136
     ([94]CVS log)
     $Date: 2011/09/22 22:04:32 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [93] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [94] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

    [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136  of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43
Check for newer version at [95]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002
/scribe/

      [95] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Frida/Friday/
Succeeded: s/in the SVG namespace/in the per-element partition/
Succeeded: s/resolution/discussion/
Found ScribeNick: vhardy
Inferring Scribes: vhardy
Default Present: ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, tbah, ChrisL, +1.425.868.aabb, +
1.425.868.aacc
Present: ed +33.9.53.77.aaaa tbah ChrisL +1.425.868.aabb +1.425.868.aac
c
Regrets: DS CC
Agenda: [96]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSe
p/0145.html

      [96]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JulSep/0145.html

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 22 Sep 2011
Guessing minutes URL: [97]http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: chris cl cyril ed erik heycam tbah vhardy

      [97] http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-svg-minutes.html

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.


    End of [98]scribe.perl diagnostic output]

      [98] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm


-- 
Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed
Received on Thursday, 22 September 2011 22:33:21 GMT

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