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RE: Minutes, June 9 2011 SVG WG telcon

From: Alex Danilo <alex@abbra.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:11:59 +1000
Message-Id: <ZBVJML.YSKKVIHE4TPL@abbra.com>
To: "David Dailey" <ddailey@zoominternet.net>
Cc: "'Rik Cabanier'" <cabanier@gmail.com>, "'www-svg'" <www-svg@w3.org>
Hi David and all,

--Original Message--:
><snip/>
>Currently in aligning text to a (baseline) curve in SVG, the characters are never distorted, merely positioned and rotated. To accomplish the full fledged dual-path approach to alignment, one will probably need to apply 3D transforms to the glyphs, but that will be a part of SVG2, anyhow, so it is not too far a stretch perhaps?

Actually since SVG 1.0 there has been an attribute 'method' on <textPath> when set to 'stretch' is
supposed to do most of what you describe here.

No-one has ever implemented it as far as I'm aware.

Cheers,
Alex

>Regards
>
>David
>
> 
>From: www-svg-request@w3.org [mailto:www-svg-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Rik Cabanier
>Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 4:56 PM
>To: www-svg
>Subject: Minutes, June 9 2011 SVG WG telcon
>
> 
>Present: Cameron, Doug, Chris, Rik
>Chair: Cameron
>Scribe: Rik
>
> 
>http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-minutes.html
>
>   [1]W3C
>
> 
>
>      [1] http://www.w3.org/
>
> 
>
>                               - DRAFT -
>
> 
>
>                   SVG Working Group Teleconference
>
> 
>
>09 Jun 2011
>
> 
>
>   [2]Agenda
>
> 
>
>      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011AprJun/0137.html
>
> 
>
>   See also: [3]IRC log
>
> 
>
>      [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-irc
>
> 
>
>Attendees
>
> 
>
>   Present
>
>   Regrets
>
>   Chair
>
>          Cameron
>
> 
>
>   Scribe
>
>          cabanier
>
> 
>
>Contents
>
> 
>
>     * [4]Topics
>
>         1. [5]SVG 1.1 Second Edition
>
>         2. [6]Seattle F2F form
>
>         3. [7]CSS WG testing
>
>         4. [8]Text layout
>
>         5. [9]FX taskforce
>
>     * [10]Summary of Action Items
>
>     _________________________________________________________
>
> 
>
>   <trackbot> Date: 09 June 2011
>
> 
>
>   <shepazu> [11]http://www.w3.org/News/2011#entry-9122
>
> 
>
>     [11] http://www.w3.org/News/2011#entry-9122
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> ScribeNick: cabanier
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> CM: let's get started
>
> 
>
>SVG 1.1 Second Edition
>
> 
>
>   DS: did you catch the out of date reference?
>
> 
>
>   CL: I did not. didn't think it was prudent to change
>
>   ... can you still change?
>
> 
>
>   DS: yes you can
>
> 
>
>   <ChrisL> can change in response to ac review comments
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> CM: I saw philippe mentioned our CSS2.0 reference, did you
>
>   explain that to him?
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> CL: yes
>
> 
>
>   CM: there are 4 weeks to comment and then will become recommended
>
> 
>
>   there weren't too many people commenting. There is a culture where
>
>   if people don't comment, they imply yes
>
> 
>
>   don't panic if there are no comments but it would be better if
>
>   people do
>
> 
>
>   (that was doug schepers)
>
> 
>
>Seattle F2F form
>
> 
>
>   CM: form is supposed to be done at the end of the mont
>
>   ... send a reminder to get topics for the venue
>
>   ... one of the agenda items is the FX topics but we will wait until
>
>   Vincent calls in
>
> 
>
>CSS WG testing
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> [12]http://www.w3.org/mid/4DDA7888.6030707@w3.org
>
> 
>
>     [12] http://www.w3.org/mid/4DDA7888.6030707@w3.org
>
> 
>
>   <shepazu> public-test-infra@w3.org
>
> 
>
>   DS: in the testing taskforce there is a consensus to use the stuff
>
>   that Peter Linss has done for CSS
>
>   ... he wrote a framework to aggregate the tests
>
> 
>
>   the framework allows to run a subset of the tests. when running test
>
>   you can run all tests or just a couple
>
> 
>
>   DS: I want him to come talk to us because we feel strongly to have
>
>   unified testing
>
> 
>
>   CM: should one of us call in?
>
> 
>
>   DS: I'll follow up with him
>
>   ... he responded off-list that he wanted more information
>
> 
>
>   <scribe> ACTION: shepazu to follow up with Peter Linss about testing
>
>   [recorded in
>
>   [13]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-minutes.html#action01]
>
> 
>
>Text layout
>
> 
>
>   ds: we have to wait for Vincent to be here
>
> 
>
>   CM: I made a recent proposal for positioning
>
>   ... I didn't read Rik's email reply yet
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> RC: it seems that svg is trying to do two things at once
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> ... it's doing layout for you, but also wants to provide
>
>   you with the ability to position glyphs yourself
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> ... it's a little bit the same thing with ligatures
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> ... it'll create ligatures for you, but then also wants to
>
>   give you the ability with positioning not to create ligatures
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> ... so it seems a bit messy
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> ... I propose that maybe we should have a new type of text,
>
>   more like pdf, specifying individual glyphs taht you want to use
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> ... so you can choose the ligatures
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> ... and you always specify glyph positions
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> ... and the existing <text> will be automatically laid out
>
>   text
>
> 
>
>   <ChrisL> sounds like a glyphlist rather than text - so would need an
>
>   'alt' for accessibility
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> ... and it can create ligatures on the fly for you
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> ... so people who want a simple interface can still have
>
>   that, but people like us, who want more control over glyph selection
>
>   and positioning can have that as well
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> CM: we may need to have glyph indexing
>
> 
>
>   <ChrisL> the interaction between altglyph and opentype layout tables
>
>   is underspecified
>
> 
>
>   <heycam> CM: but we do have <altGlyph> and <glyphDef>
>
> 
>
>   DS: do we have properties to control if ligatures are formed?
>
> 
>
>   <ChrisL> CSS3 has a way to disable discretionary ligatures
>
> 
>
>   CM: true
>
>   ... but, I don't think that turns of mandatory ones
>
> 
>
>   DS: ok
>
> 
>
>   CM: I'm not completely well versed in the area.
>
> 
>
>   DS: seems like a pain
>
> 
>
>   CL: I understand that the idea behind the 2 modes
>
> 
>
>   CM: do we want 'abc' or indexes into the font file
>
> 
>
>   CL: not sure
>
> 
>
>   RC: going the PDF way might be very difficult
>
> 
>
>   CM: not if just using glyph ids
>
> 
>
>   RC: true
>
> 
>
>   CM: SVG is not ideal for absolute position but there is a need for
>
>   positioning on character based input.
>
>   ... Rik do you have an opinion
>
> 
>
>   RC: I was looking at it from absolute positioning
>
> 
>
>   CM: we need to keep allowing positioning in the current SVG text
>
>   ... and make it as accessible as possible
>
> 
>
>   CL: one of the reasons that was added was for adding more
>
>   complicated text on a path
>
> 
>
>   RC: and every glyph could have its own matrix
>
> 
>
>   CM: yes by specifiying a rotation
>
>   ... maybe we should present this at the face-to-face
>
>   ... I need to implement it anyway and I will start off with my
>
>   proposal
>
>   ... I will give more detail at the F2F
>
>   ... for the use case of absolute positioning, we should try to
>
>   support better and someone should start on a proposal
>
>   ... rik, do you want to take this on?
>
> 
>
>   RC: I will discuss with Vincent but Adobe's interested.
>
> 
>
>   CM: using glyph indices is probably a good way
>
> 
>
>   RC: using glyph indices requires you have the font
>
> 
>
>   CM: I think that is reasonable.
>
>   ... that the font is always there when you do absolute positioning
>
> 
>
>FX taskforce
>
> 
>
>   DS: want to discuss the CSS and SVG charters
>
> 
>
>   CM: should we wait for vincent
>
> 
>
>   DS: we'll talk about it via email
>
> 
>
>   RRSAgent make minutes
>
> 
>
>   RSSAgent, make minutes
>
> 
>
>Summary of Action Items
>
> 
>
>   [NEW] ACTION: shepazu to follow up with Peter Linss about testing
>
>   [recorded in
>
>   [14]http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-minutes.html#action01]
>
> 
>
>   [End of minutes]
>
>     _________________________________________________________
>
> 
>
> 
>
>    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [15]scribe.perl version 1.136
>
>    ([16]CVS log)
>
>    $Date: 2011/06/09 20:50:05 $
>
>     _________________________________________________________
>
> 
>
>     [15] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>
>     [16] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
>
> 
>
>
>
>
Received on Friday, 10 June 2011 01:13:28 GMT

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