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Minutes, 2 February 2011 SVG WG telcon

From: Cameron McCormack <cam@mcc.id.au>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 10:13:12 +1300
To: www-svg@w3.org
Message-ID: <20110202211311.GA29911@wok.mcc.id.au>
Unedited minutes from the telcon:

  http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                   SVG Working Group Teleconference

02 Feb 2011

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011JanMar/0102.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          tbah, [IPcaller], ed, Shepazu, heycam, +39.524.9.aaaa,
          ChrisL, anthony_work, [Microsoft], adrianba

   Regrets
   Chair
          SV_MEETING_CHAIR

   Scribe
          Cameron

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]SVG 1.1 Second Edition progress
     * [6]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 02 February 2011

   <scribe> Scribe: Cameron

   <scribe> ScribeNick: heycam

SVG 1.1 Second Edition progress

   CL: i've finally finished off the abbra test, which helps with a few
   i think
   ... you just checked them in erik?

   ED: yes i updated the tables

   CL: i've also got another implementation from ekioh, which is a 1.2T
   implementation, but he claims that it passes 5 tests that we
   currently have listed as not being passed

   <ChrisL> Ekioh

   <ChrisL> > PW> animate-elem-46-t

   <ChrisL> > PW> fonts-desc-02-t

   <ChrisL> > PW> fonts-glyph-02-t

   <ChrisL> > PW> painting-stroke-10-t

   <ChrisL> > PW> text-intro-05-t

   CL: I haven't run it yet
   ... i've also been talking with another company, they do an svg to
   pdf converter, and they're interested in running the test suite
   ... that won't help us with any dom tests, but it may help with some
   of the static ones
   ... lastly i can talk to alex, if we have a shortlist of items we
   don't pass, we could get him to work on those to fix them

   CM: i think we should see which ones we should go for
   implementations, and which ones we should drop

   CL: animate-elem-46-t we've already got one passing then

   <ChrisL> animate-elem-46-t one pass from Opera and Ekioh claim a
   pass too

   CM: the issue is font-weight animation with discrete/interpolated
   values

   <ed> <animate attributeName="font-weight" values="bold;normal;bold"
   dur="3s" fill="freeze"/>

   CL: ask jdagett about whether you can interpolate these

   <ed> that's what the test is doing, so depends on how the
   interpolation there is meant to work

   CL: I think it should interpolate from 0 to 1000
   ... because there are fonts existing that say their weights that are
   not multiples of 100
   ... 250s, 750s, etc.
   ... maybe we could just drop that sub-test, split it out
   ... clarify the issue, and then bring it back as a separate test
   ... if we think it's correct and we've got two passes then we're all
   right...

   ED: afaics from firefox it's a timing issue rather than a font
   weight issue
   ... we did recently make a change to animation interpolation code
   that we had a bug on, not sure if it affected this test, but i can
   check internal builds to see how it goes
   ... it's possible it looks more like what firefox is doing now

   CM: after the call i will test batik/firefox/webkit with the last
   subtest removed

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris to read css3 fonts and ask jdaggett about
   interpolating font-weight animations [recorded in
   [7]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2936 - Read css3 fonts and ask jdaggett
   about interpolating font-weight animations [on Chris Lilley - due
   2011-02-09].

   <scribe> ACTION: cameron to test batik/firefox/webkit with the last
   subtest removed (animate-elem-46-t) [recorded in
   [8]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2937 - Test batik/firefox/webkit with the
   last subtest removed (animate-elem-46-t) [on Cameron McCormack - due
   2011-02-09].

   <ChrisL> filters-light-02-f

   CL: is this something that's been changed because of errata?

   ED: yes, from memory

   CL: so some of this is stable stuff and some just changed 6 months
   ago

   CM: is this one affected by anthony's direction of the light
   erratum?

   ED: it might be

   AG: i will check

   ED: it's about the same thing

   <ed> ISSUE-2339?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2339 -- Last Call Comment: definition of azimuth,
   elevation for feDistantLight -- open

   <trackbot> [9]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2339

      [9] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2339

   CL: opera is the only one that passes
   ... so we should lean on someone to fix it

   AG: i think in the spec we've got it wrong

   TB: inkscape does it backwards
   ... let me check

   CL: if the spec is wrong or ambiguous, and inkscape has copied the
   spec, and we've now corrected the spec...

   TB: i ran the test automatically and with our test harness it failed
   ... but when i open it in inkscape it passes, but the reference
   image is just a bit lighter

   CL: i wouldn't worry about that too much

   TB: we pass, then

   CL: what about -03?

   TB: that one we don't get the primitiveUnits=objectBoundingBox one
   correct

   ED: so from our experience, the primitiveUnits thing is a day of
   work, not too hard, mostly just converting the coordinates
   ... if you have everything else in place it shouldn't be that hard
   to implement

   TB: i'm not sure whether we do objectBoundingBox correct anywhere

   <ed>
   [10]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-light-03-f
   .svg

     [10] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-light-03-f.svg

   <ChrisL>
   file://localhost/D:/WWW/dev/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-ligh
   t-03-f.svg

   AG: looking at filters-light-02 i think we should be fine re the
   erratum
   ... since the test is testing azimuth, but the erratum is about
   elevation
   ... the difference might be a darker or lighter arc

   <scribe> ACTION: cameron to look at batik for filters-light-03
   [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2938 - Look at batik for filters-light-03
   [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09].

   <ed>
   [12]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-overview-0
   1-b.svg

     [12] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/filters-overview-01-b.svg

   <ChrisL> filters-overview-01-b.svg

   CM: firefox doesn't implement those four inputs

   TB: inkscape doesn't do fillpaint/strokepaint

   CL: i noticed the ones that fail in firefox are different from those
   that fail in batik
   ... firefox doesn't do backgroundimage/backgroundalpha

   CM: and fillpaint/fillstroke
   ... not sure how easy batik is to fix
   ... backgroundimage/backgroundalpha are harder to implement

   <scribe> ACTION: cameron to look into batik failing
   filters-overview-01 [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2939 - Look into batik failing
   filters-overview-01 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09].

   <ed>
   [14]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/fonts-desc-04-t.sv
   g

     [14] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/fonts-desc-04-t.svg

   CL: abbra only has some small problems with italic/oblique
   ... maybe it can be fixed

   CM: seems like this test might be passed by some tiny
   implementations

   ED: for opera it's the last line that fails

   CL: and i think that's a css 2.1 conformance failure

   CM: what's it testing specifically?

   <ChrisL> Italic can match against oblique or italic, but all other
   values must match exactly.

   CM: seems like it should be a simple fix then

   <scribe> ACTION: erik to look at opera failing fonts-desc-04
   [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2940 - Look at opera failing fonts-desc-04
   [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-02-09].

   <scribe> ACTION: cameron to look into batik failing fonts-desc-04
   [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action06]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2941 - Look into batik failing
   fonts-desc-04 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09].

   <ed>
   [17]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/fonts-desc-05-t.sv
   g

     [17] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/fonts-desc-05-t.svg

   ED: fonts-desc-05, is that testing the same thing? or something
   different?

   CL: this is testing smallcaps or not, also testing the oblique thing

   CM: seems to be testing precedence of the font descriptors too,
   looking at the pass criteria

   <scribe> ACTION: cameron to check batik for fonts-desc-05 [recorded
   in [18]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action07]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2942 - Check batik for fonts-desc-05 [on
   Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09].

   ED: might be hard for us to deal with, we do synthesis of smallcaps
   ... i think the fonts don't have uppercase glyphs
   ... so we would go to the missing glyph

   CL: so you never use the real small cap font, only the synthesized
   one?

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to check opera for fonts-desc-05, but no
   promises! [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action08]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2943 - Check opera for fonts-desc-05, but
   no promises! [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-02-09].

   <ed>
   [20]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/fonts-glyph-02-t.s
   vg

     [20] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/fonts-glyph-02-t.svg

   ED: i know this one passes in internal builds

   CL: it should be fairly easy, if you do svg fonts
   ... on the <glyph> element there's an arabic-form attribute
   ... which says whether it's isolated, medial, etc.
   ... that's what it's testing

   ED: we could change it to use text-anchor=middle
   ... same in opera, it will pass with text-anchor=middle

   <ChrisL> I just checked in the change on CVS

   CM: not sure about this text-anchor issue

   ED: the text has been backported from 1.2T

   CL: the tests need fixing for those text-anchor issues

   <scribe> ACTION: erik to regenerate reference image for
   fonts-glyph-02 [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action09]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2944 - Regenerate reference image for
   fonts-glyph-02 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-02-09].

   <ed>
   [22]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/fonts-glyph-03-t.s
   vg

     [22] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/fonts-glyph-03-t.svg

   CM: huh, i didn't know <glyph> had lang=""

   CL: it's because of CJK unification, to select between different
   versions of character for chinese and japanese etc.

   <scribe> ACTION: cameron to look into fonts-glyph-03 with no
   guarantees [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action10]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2945 - Look into fonts-glyph-03 with no
   guarantees [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09].

   ACTION-2945: for batik

   <trackbot> ACTION-2945 Look into fonts-glyph-03 with no guarantees
   notes added

   <ed>
   [24]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/interact-pevents-0
   4-t.svg

     [24] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/interact-pevents-04-t.svg

   ED: i could live with fonts-glyph-03 being dropped for now

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to change the font in fonts-glyph-03 to make
   the space glyphs be blank [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action11]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2946 - Change the font in fonts-glyph-03
   to make the space glyphs be blank [on Erik Dahlström - due
   2011-02-09].

   <ed>
   [26]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/linking-uri-01-b.s
   vg

     [26] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/linking-uri-01-b.svg

   CL: this is also affected by errata
   ... svg use to say bare fragments mean nothing
   ... we changed it to mean centered on the thing with that id
   ... there's a seaprate issue about highlighting it, which i think we
   decided you shouldn't have to
   ... but the moving the viewport probably would be an easy thing
   ... if you already do views, it should be easy

   <ed> [27]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/linking.html

     [27] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/linking.html

   <shepazu>
   [28]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/linking.html#SVGFra
   gmentIdentifiers

     [28] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/linking.html#SVGFragmentIdentifiers

   DS: there may be UAs out there that do this, maybe we can change the
   spec to say "UAs can do highlighting if they support :target"

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris to propose wording for highlighting and
   :target [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action12]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2947 - Propose wording for highlighting
   and :target [on Chris Lilley - due 2011-02-09].

   <ChrisL> viewTarget = "XML_Name [XML_NAME]*"

   <ChrisL> Indicates the target object associated with the view. If
   provided, then the target element(s) will be highlighted.

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris to change linking-uri-01 and linking-uri-02
   to remove the requirement to highlight [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action13]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2948 - Change linking-uri-01 and
   linking-uri-02 to remove the requirement to highlight [on Chris
   Lilley - due 2011-02-09].

   <ed>
   [31]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-render-02
   -b.svg

     [31] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-render-02-b.svg

   CM: it should be testing alpha compositing with color-interpolation
   ... nobody passes, and comments saying that the test is wrong

   CL: let's unapprove it

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to unapprove painting-render-02-b [recorded
   in [32]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action14]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2949 - Unapprove painting-render-02-b [on
   Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09].

   <ed>
   [33]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-stroke-10
   -t.svg

     [33] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-stroke-10-t.svg

   <ChrisL> This tests that stroking of zero length subpaths will
   result in

   <ChrisL> some rendering if the 'stroke-linecap' property is set to

   <ChrisL> 'square' or 'round', but not if it is set to 'butt'.

   CM: jwatt has a patch for this, but it hasn't been approved to be
   landed yet

   <ChrisL>
   [34]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlObjectAppr
   oved/

     [34] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlObjectApproved/

   ED: we have a bunch of bugs on zero length paths, and i don't think
   any of those are close to being fixed

   CM: it's probably not simple in batik, or in webkit

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to see how easy painting-stroke-10-t is to
   fix in Batik [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action15]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2950 - See how easy painting-stroke-10-t
   is to fix in Batik [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09].

   <ed>
   [36]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/struct-dom-15-f.sv
   g

     [36] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/struct-dom-15-f.svg

   CM: seems to be doing the use element correctly with event dispatch

   <shepazu> ISSUE: for SVG2 / SVG Fonts, describe rational for @lang
   on <glyph>, e.g. because of CJK unification, to select between
   different versions of character for chinese and japanese etc.

   <trackbot> Created ISSUE-2399 - For SVG2 / SVG Fonts, describe
   rational for @lang on <glyph>, e.g. because of CJK unification, to
   select between different versions of character for chinese and
   japanese etc. ; please complete additional details at
   [37]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2399/edit .

     [37] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2399/edit

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to review struct-dom-15 [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action16]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2951 - Review struct-dom-15 [on Cameron
   McCormack - due 2011-02-09].

   ED: we can split it up

   <scribe> ACTION: Patrick to review struct-dom-15 [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action17]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2952 - Review struct-dom-15 [on Patrick
   Dengler - due 2011-02-09].

   [40]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlObjectAppr
   oved/struct-dom-15-f.html

     [40] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlObjectApproved/struct-dom-15-f.html

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to look into off-colors in reference images
   on mac [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/02-svg-minutes.html#action18]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2953 - Look into off-colors in reference
   images on mac [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-02-09].

   <ed>
   [42]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/text-align-07-t.sv
   g

     [42] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/text-align-07-t.svg

   CL: abbra passes -08 but not -07
   ... in unicode there are tables to determine which glyphs go from
   which baselines

   PD: we only have two fonts that support ideographic baseline

   <ChrisL> the problem is that for OT/TT fonts, there can be no
   baseline info at all so what should it align to?

   <ChrisL> the svg version of the test has explicit baseline infor for
   all four lines

   <ChrisL> so is the test correct, i am saying

   CM: (summarises some fx tf discussions)
   ... if we will unapprove one we should unapprove both

   <ChrisL> don't follow; one has explicit info and the other has
   implicit or missing info

   ChrisL, ah you dropped off

   ChrisL, I'll mail you a summary of what we discussed, since we're
   out of time now anyway

   <ChrisL> yes I get dropped after 40 minutes

   <ChrisL> ok

-- 
Cameron McCormack ≝ http://mcc.id.au/
Received on Wednesday, 2 February 2011 21:14:54 GMT

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