W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-svg@w3.org > July 2010

Re: Agenda July 19 2010 SVG WG telcon

From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:52:19 +1000
Message-ID: <4C461A93.4040901@cisra.canon.com.au>
To: www-svg@w3.org
http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html

---

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

20 Jul 2010

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, anthony, +1.919.824.aabb, tav, shepazu,
           [Microsoft]

    Regrets
           CL

    Chair
           SV_MEETING_CHAIR

    Scribe
           pdengler

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]SVG 1.1F2 LC comments
          2. [5]DrawImage in <cavas>
          3. [6]load events on svg elements
          4. [7]ie9 clarification issues
      * [8]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 20 July 2010

    <shepazu> minutes

    <ed> Agenda:
    [9]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0047
    .html +
    [10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/004
    8.html

       [9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0047.html
      [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0048.html

    <ed> [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Paris-2010-F2F

      [11] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Paris-2010-F2F

    <ed> [12]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/f2fParis2010/

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/f2fParis2010/

    <ed> ACTION: ed to fix broken images in 1.1F2/images (commit with
    -kb flag) [recorded in
    [13]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2825 - Fix broken images in 1.1F2/images
    (commit with -kb flag) [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-27].

SVG 1.1F2 LC comments

    <ed>
    [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/004
    2.html

      [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0042.html

    <ed>
    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/004
    3.html

      [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0043.html

    <ed>
    [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/004
    5.html

      [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0045.html

    <scribe> scribenick: pdengler

    pdengler: CSS defined properties (e.g. 'font-size') must follow CSS
    syntax and thus require units for non-zero <length> values. See 6.1
    for a list of CSS defined properties
    ... This is the proposed change of language correct?

    ed: Not a problem going to a property for x and y

    shepazu: When using attributes use SVG unit values, when using CSS
    use unit values

    ed: not sure this is what browers do

    Tav: Not sure if this is what we are saying

    <ed>
    [17]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/types-basic-02-f.s
    vg

      [17] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/types-basic-02-f.svg

    shepazu: Need to coordinate w/ CSS working group
    ... Take HTML approach that CSS working group needs to reasses the
    issue
    ... Need to do with the Fx task force
    ... Tooling and existing content does styling with unitless values.

    <scribe> ACTION: shezpazu to Work with Tav and CSS working group on
    understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties
    [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - shezpazu

    <scribe> ACTION: shepazu to Work with Tav and CSS working group on
    understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties
    [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2826 - Work with Tav and CSS working group
    on understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties [on
    Doug Schepers - due 2010-07-27].

    ed: Any other last call items; perhaps one or twomore

    <ed> ISSUE-2353

    ed: Wasn't clear from the description what the red-stroked
    rectangles were suppose to describe

    <scribe> ACTION: to ed Make modification to spec around feImage
    coordinates regarding issue 2353 [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to

    <scribe> ACTION: ed To make modification to spec around feImage
    coordinates regarding issue 2353 [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2827 - Make modification to spec around
    feImage coordinates regarding issue 2353 [on Erik Dahlström - due
    2010-07-27].

    ed: With no more last call items for today we will move on to other
    issues
    ... Topic : Default sizing of SVG in HTML5

    shepazu: If default size is 100% 100%, if there is a view box, you
    can infer size

    ed: not necessarily size
    ... viewbox infers ratio, not size
    ... It would help to have an example of what you expect and what you
    get
    ... We should have samples in the test suite

    pdengler: They are there, but they are not necessarily complicated
    enough

    <scribe> ACTION: pdengler to create more sophisticated test cases
    around <image> sizing and viewBox [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action06]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2828 - Create more sophisticated test
    cases around <image> sizing and viewBox [on Patrick Dengler - due
    2010-07-27].

    pdengler: When you have a simple <svg><circle...> the default size
    is 300px,150px as last fall back

    ed: Will resolve differently depending on outer container

    shepazu: Need to have default intrinsic height in 2.0

    <scribe> ACTION: patd to investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5
    [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action07]

    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - patd

    <scribe> ACTION: pdengler to investigate default <svg> sizing in
    HTML5 [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action08]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2829 - Investigate default <svg> sizing in
    HTML5 [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].

DrawImage in <cavas>

    shepazu: For canvas, since SVG is a "vector", I think the drawImage
    should take a width and height parameter

    ed: It does take a width and height, but it doesn't always have them
    available

    shepazu: In the case where there isn't a width and height, we need
    to determine what to do

    <ed>
    [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0074.html

      [25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0074.html

    shepazu: If it has a width and height, use the width and height of
    the viewBox in pixels

    ed: Not sure this is a great idea
    ... If you don't pass a width and height when you call drawImage,
    the SVG image needs to be drawn into an area, you could use the
    <canvas> width and height
    ... Then the underlying viewBox could still be used for the
    coordinate system
    ... We have experimental code dealing with this which probably needs
    further fixing

    pdengler: I like this.

    ed: We should get this back to the HTML/Canvas effort

    <scribe> ACTION: pdengler to get to HTML5 working group <canvas>
    about using canvas width and height for SVG width and height
    [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action09]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2830 - Get to HTML5 working group <canvas>
    about using canvas width and height for SVG width and height [on
    Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].

    ed: We need to get jwatt's opinion as well

    pdengler: I will use this as a first poposal and be prepared to back
    it out of Jonothan does not like it

load events on svg elements

    <ed>
    [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0070.html

      [27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0070.html

    <ed> ISSUE-2254?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2254 -- Consider changing which elements have load
    dispatched to them -- raised

    <trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2254

      [28] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2254

    ed: What we concluded that loadevents on elements that have external
    resources; for other elements we couldn't care less; but that's not
    what the spec says
    ... And there is at least one test that checks for these

    <ed>
    [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0073.html

      [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0073.html

    <scribe> ACTION: to pdengler Check into SVG Load on all elements and
    performance [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action10]

    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to

    <scribe> ACTION:pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and
    performance [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action11]

    <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax

    <scribe> ACTION:pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and
    performance [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action12]

    <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax

    <scribe> ACTION: pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and
    performance [recorded in
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action13]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2831 - Check into SVG Load on all elements
    and performance [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].

ie9 clarification issues

    <scribe> Topic : Markers and styles at point of reference

    <ed>
    [34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0066.html

      [34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0066.html

    pdengler: We should be using markers styled at the point of
    reference

    shepazu: There is an issue that there is a lot of content out there
    that already follows this
    ... The way we talked about it, was to have a different method for
    styling the markers

    <ed>
    [35]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-marker-02
    -f.svg

      [35] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-marker-02-f.svg

    pdengler: Looking at this test
    [36]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlEmbed/pain
    ting-marker-02-f.html

      [36] 
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlEmbed/painting-marker-02-f.html

    <ed> <marker id=foo><rect fill="currentColor"></marker> <line
    marker-start="url(#foo)" color="blue"/>

    shepazu: unforutnately, the conceptual model that a marker was not a
    <use>
    ... Tried a number of ways to change fill/stroke of markers
    ... As a forward change in SVG 2.0, but we could add this in one of
    two ways;
    ... Keep it backward compatible with marker-fill/marker-stroke; this
    would support both use cases
    ... Another way to do it is to inherit the fill and stroke of it's
    referencing parent

    Tav: You can't just inherit the stroke of the parent

    shepazu: most content defines the style for the marker.
    ... you don't get to override this. It's not as much as an issue as
    I thought, as existing content is already defining
    stroke/stroke-width colors

    <ed> ok, we can forget the marker + color example i pasted earlier,
    doesn't work :)

    shepazu: So we could redefine it for SVG 2.0; but for the author is
    best for us define marker specifc properties

    <scribe> ACTION: ed: to investigate markers and where and when to
    apply style [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action14]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2832 - Investigate markers and where and
    when to apply style [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-27].

    Tav: Suppose there is an arrow. The normal thing to do would be to
    have the arrow head to inherit the stroke-color of the path for the
    fill of the marker

    shepazu: How do we achieve that effect?
    ... Most of the time, authors are using the path without a fill

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: ed to fix broken images in 1.1F2/images (commit with
    -kb flag) [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: ed To make modification to spec around feImage
    coordinates regarding issue 2353 [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: ed: to investigate markers and where and when to apply
    style [recorded in
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action14]
    [NEW] ACTION: patd to investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5
    [recorded in
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action07]
    [NEW] ACTION: pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and
    performance [recorded in
    [42]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action11]
    [NEW] ACTION: pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and
    performance [recorded in
    [43]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action12]
    [NEW] ACTION: pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and
    performance [recorded in
    [44]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action13]
    [NEW] ACTION: pdengler to create more sophisticated test cases
    around <image> sizing and viewBox [recorded in
    [45]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action06]
    [NEW] ACTION: pdengler to get to HTML5 working group <canvas> about
    using canvas width and height for SVG width and height [recorded in
    [46]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action09]
    [NEW] ACTION: pdengler to investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5
    [recorded in
    [47]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action08]
    [NEW] ACTION: shepazu to Work with Tav and CSS working group on
    understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties
    [recorded in
    [48]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: shezpazu to Work with Tav and CSS working group on
    understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties
    [recorded in
    [49]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: to ed Make modification to spec around feImage
    coordinates regarding issue 2353 [recorded in
    [50]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: to pdengler Check into SVG Load on all elements and
    performance [recorded in
    [51]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html#action10]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [52]scribe.perl version 1.135
     ([53]CVS log)
     $Date: 2010/07/20 21:45:21 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [52] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [53] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

    [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at [54]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002
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      [54] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found ScribeNick: pdengler
Inferring Scribes: pdengler
Default Present: ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, anthony, +1.919.824.aabb, tav, s
hepazu, [Microsoft]
Present: ed +33.9.53.77.aaaa anthony +1.919.824.aabb tav shepazu [Micro
soft]
Regrets: CL

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 20 Jul 2010
Guessing minutes URL: [55]http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: ed make modification patd pdengler shepazu sh
ezpazu to

      [55] http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html

    End of [56]scribe.perl diagnostic output]

      [56] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
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