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Minutes, 11 Jan 2010 SVG WG

From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:42:18 +1100
Message-ID: <4B4B9B3A.2070604@cisra.canon.com.au>
To: www-svg@w3.org
http://www.w3.org/2010/01/11-svg-minutes.html

---

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

11 Jan 2010

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/11-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           [Microsoft], Shepazu, ChrisL, jwatt, ed, anthony

    Regrets
    Chair
           Erik

    Scribe
           anthony

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Up coming F2F
          2. [5]Conflicting Actions
          3. [6]Charter
      * [7]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 11 January 2010

    <ChrisL> trackbot, start telcon

    <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference

    <trackbot> Date: 11 January 2010

    <jwatt> welcome, patrick

    <patrick> thanks ;) a little slow today

    <jwatt> no worries, it takes a little time to get up to speed

    <scribe> Scribe: anthony

Up coming F2F

    <ed>
    [8]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings#F2F_Meeting_Infor
    mation

       [8] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings#F2F_Meeting_Information

    <ed> [9]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-svg-minutes.html#item05

       [9] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-svg-minutes.html#item05

    DS: Adding conferences
    ... started but didn't finish

    ED: The minutes from last teclon should tell us the same thing

    DS: I'm adding some existing meetings we know about
    ... I sent out emails about SVG DOM API summit
    ... there was definite interest
    ... I spoke to Chris Wilson (MS), Brad N (Google), Jeff Schiller,
    Alex Rustle (Dojo)
    ... emailed some people privately
    ... I said we'd like to have it in the valley probably in April

    CL: Need 8 weeks notice for a work shop

    DS: Is this applicable for a workshop?

    CL: Yes, seems appropriate for one

    AG: I cannot make late April, has to be early April

    DS: I'm going to shoot for early April then it that suits everyone
    ... Chris do you know when the CSS Group meeting?

    CL: 29th - 31st March
    ... Hosted by Apple

    <ChrisL> [10]http://www.w3.org/Member/Eventscal.html

      [10] http://www.w3.org/Member/Eventscal.html

    CL: Fonts WG (tentative) 1st - 2nd April
    ... also in California

    <shepazu>
    [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings#Related_Conferen
    ces

      [11] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Meetings#Related_Conferences

    DS: Are we on planning on having a F2F before then?
    ... Then there is SVG Open, where we've had a F2F

    <ChrisL> aug 30 sep 2

    <ChrisL> in Paris

    DS: Where is TPAC?
    ... there's two
    ... the AC meeting
    ... then TPAC

    CL: AC meeting is 21st - 23rd March

    <ChrisL> [12]http://www.w3.org/Member/Eventscal.html

      [12] http://www.w3.org/Member/Eventscal.html

    CL: Unsure about TPAC because it only links to past

    DS: I know it is going to be France somewhere in the Fall
    ... I've updated the page with the things we need to think about
    ... members here on the group don't have to attend AC meeting
    ... The mini TPAC might not happen this year

    <ChrisL> seems to me we should aim for one in Belgium in may for
    LGM, and one in Paris in August /Sept for SVG Open

    DS: The DOM Summit is more urgent than a mini TPAC
    ... the DOM Summit will be F2F 1
    ... we can have a the F2F, 1 day after the Summit or before

    CL: Are people happy to come to Nice, I can probably host
    ... or Brussels if we can find a place to host

    DS: My preference is to have it in Brussels
    ... we can probably talk to the people organising LGM

    CL: They have a commercial space
    ... might cost them money to have it for a few more days

    DS: Who is hosting?

    CL: Constant

    <ChrisL> ACTION Chris lo look into f2f hosting in Brussels

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2710 - Lo look into f2f hosting in
    Brussels [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-01-18].

    DS: I will also look for W3C members who are also in Belgium

    <ChrisL>
    [13]http://www.microsoft.com/belux/nl/about/belgium/route_bel.mspx

      [13] http://www.microsoft.com/belux/nl/about/belgium/route_bel.mspx

    PD: I think we have a space out there
    ... or something near there
    ... you guys let me know where you want to go
    ... and I'll look into it

    ED: What dates are we talking about exactly?

    PD: Send me some details and I'll hunt something down

    <shepazu> # Libre Graphic Meeting: 27-30 May 2010, Brussels, Belgium

    <shepazu> [14]http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/?a=view

      [14] http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/?a=view

    DS: Does anyone have any preference about having the F2F before or
    after the Libre Graphics Meeting?

    CL: Should let LGM know about this
    ... could have an open day

    DS: We could have discussions about gradient type features

    ED: Before LGM would be better for me

    DS: LGM is very Print centric
    ... Leonard and another Adobe person will be there

    <ChrisL> [15]http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/

      [15] http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/

    DS: having someone from Scibus and Adobe working with us on the
    Print related stuff would be nice

    AG: I don't have any preference to either side

    ED: How many days do you think we need? Just 3 days

    AG: I disagree, I don't think 3 days will be enough
    ... because we'll only have 1 day for the DOM Summit and we wont
    have had any other F2F before then

    DS: I have a slight preference for having the F2F after
    ... so we digest what learn at LGM

    <ChrisL> I have a slight preference for before :)

    ED: we could split the F2F

    CL: We'd be looking at Monday 24th to Wednesday 26th, May

    AG: Good idea to have a day break before the conference
    ... then have a 2 day meeting after LGM

    ED: Are ok with this?

    PD: I'll see if I can confirm this

    ED: Doug you will decide the days of DOM Summit

    DS: But it will be early April

    CL: What about the one along side SVG Open?
    ... should we contact the organisers
    ... so people can host us there?

    DS: I'm sure we can find people in Paris
    ... Robin B and I will sit down next week and edit last week

    CL: I'd like to join you guys on that

Conflicting Actions

    ACTION-2378?

    <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel

    <ed> [16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2358

      [16] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2358

    <ed> [17]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2372

      [17] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2372

    ACTION-5372?

    <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel

    ACTION-2358?

    <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel

    ACTION-2372?

    <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel

    ED: Both pending review
    ... seem to be covering the samething

    <ChrisL> ACTION-2358

    <ChrisL> Propose wording for the clip path pointer-events erratum
    and masking/compositing module change

    <ChrisL> ACTION-2372

    <ChrisL> Propose revised wording for the errata item "Capturing
    pointer-events with a zero opacity mask" to clarify it with
    clip-path

    CL: We started talking about this but then needed JWatt here

    ED: Ok they are not exactly the same
    ... one is masking one is clipping

    CL: It was originally on Doug
    ... then was transferred to JWatt

    JW: I'm struggling to recall the details of this

    DS: JWatt you thought that the values of pointer events were
    confusing with regards
    ... to visibility
    ... and clip paths
    ... and you didn't want to introduce anything on that same model
    ... we still didn't have these resolved
    ... but you had intended coming up with something new

    JW: My preference was to leave SVG 1.1 as is and propose something
    to 2.0

    DS: I was thinking state, this is not defined in 1.1 and say that it
    will be defined later
    ... it's not very useful for authors but will speed up the Errata

    <ed>
    [18]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/interact.html#Point
    erEventsProperty

      [18] 
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/interact.html#PointerEventsProperty

    ED: Just wondering if we have wording in the 2nd Edition spec
    already
    ... This is the most current publish

    JW: We talked about this quite a lot at Mountain View F2F 2009
    ... none of the minutes are linked to the actions

    <ed>
    [19]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/interact.html#PointerEventsProperty

      [19] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/interact.html#PointerEventsProperty

    ED: There does seem to be some new wording
    ... we have two new paragraphs stating something about clip paths
    and masks
    ... I don't see anything about introducing new key words
    ... or new behaviour key words

    JW: That was just an idea

    ED: Then it sort of sounds like this has already been done
    ... and we can raise an issue for the next major version

    AG: Is there enough wording for authors?

    DS: Implementers I'm concerned about as well
    ... don't want loose wording which is implemented a certain way
    ... then we change it in 2.0

    JW: I need to look at this
    ... I can read through it by next week
    ... I need to come back with a statement about what we should
    ... do

    ED: We should probably talk about the gradient thing at some point

    CL: I read through it, but I didn't see any consensus
    ... we should decide what makes the most sense
    ... and what has the least impact

    DS: I think no matter what we decide people will have to change

    CL: We should see what content is out there
    ... as in a bunch of content relying on something
    ... or an authoring spitting out something in particular

    <scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Test the gradient output of authoring
    tools and report back [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/11-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2711 - Test the gradient output of
    authoring tools and report back [on Anthony Grasso - due
    2010-01-18].

Charter

    <shepazu>
    [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/charter/SVG-WG-charter.html <-
    draft

      [21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/charter/SVG-WG-charter.html

    CL: Did you make that using the charter generator?

    DS: I did
    ... the charter is more about where we are expanding into
    ... it includes a bit about the task force
    ... we got interest from one of the guys from Apple who has interest
    in Multi Media stuff

    <ChrisL> Jack Jansen

    DS: Jack Jansen and I talked about a smaller subset of the SMIL spec
    ... that CSS and SVG are interested in
    ... there were some concerns about the level that these interactions
    where occurring
    ... what do you guys think about taking on a new animation spec that
    we would reference instead of SMIL?

    PD: Is the intent to cross more technologies than SVG?

    DS: It is. CSS, HTML, SVG

    CL: Is already looking for that sort of model. Sometimes it is
    because the SMIL model is not the best
    ... Jack knows SMIL very well and he'd be very good to have on board

    DS: Vincent Hardy may also participate
    ... This would be more focused on making things easier
    ... I'm planning on putting that in the charter
    ... just wanted you guys to know about it first
    ... doesn't mean we have to work on it
    ... just means we can
    ... I haven't completed the charter
    ... still a working progress so if you have any comments on it
    ... feel free to send them to me
    ... I'm basically saying SVG has to evolve but maintain some
    backwards compatibility
    ... and fixing some things from the past

    ED: For the DOM Summit do we have a summary of what we want to
    change

    <shepazu> [22]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG_2_DOM

      [22] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG_2_DOM

    DS: I'd really like you guys to start identifying specific problems
    ... that you have with the DOM
    ... and call them out in the work shop
    ... and have people to come to the table with proposals
    ... either spec-ed out or worded so it can be put into a spec
    ... and possibly some sort of library
    ... my proposal is all the suggestions from the DOM API discussions
    we were having
    ... I will advice people to make position papers
    ... structurally should we review papers before the conference?

    CL: Would be a good idea

    DS: I was thinking of having a morning session
    ... to present papers
    ... then the other 2 days hashing stuff out

    AG: Do all attendees need to present a paper?

    DS: No. I think it would be good though if the SVG WG put together a
    proposal
    ... the WG as a whole will present a position paper

    <ed> ACTION: ed to review the SVG DOM and make notes on
    [23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG_2_DOM recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/11-svg-minutes.html#action02]

      [23] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG_2_DOM

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2712 - Review the SVG DOM and make notes
    on [25]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG_2_DOM on Erik
    Dahlström - due 2010-01-18].

      [25] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG_2_DOM

    DS: People on the WG are welcome to put forward position papers
    ... but you don't have to

    PD: One thing we did when we were working with CSS we committed a
    thousands of conformance tests. I was wondering how to go about
    doing that for this working group

    CL: It depends on if how are going to added
    ... We have notes on how to add tests
    ... and we have a template
    ... for the tests

    <ChrisL> we have a methodology fro tracking test maturity so the
    suite can have newly added stuff and reviewed stuff all at once

    DS: JWatt and I were talking about a testing framework were people
    from the public can also help review the tests

    <ChrisL>
    [26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_Overview

      [26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_Overview

    JW: Patrick do you have a bunch of tests you want to move to the
    test suite or is this hypothetical?

    <ChrisL> I'd rather have tests submitted as they arise rather than
    in bulk

    JW: we should use the framework that Doug was talking about

    DS: Also it is intended for use with all the browser specifications
    ... not just SVG
    ... the existing stuff does work. In the short term we could use
    that
    ... but in the long term
    ... we can transition to the framework

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Test the gradient output of authoring tools
    and report back [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/11-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: ed to review the SVG DOM and make notes on
    [28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG_2_DOM recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/11-svg-minutes.html#action02]

      [28] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG_2_DOM

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [30]scribe.perl version 1.135
     ([31]CVS log)
     $Date: 2010/01/11 21:31:29 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [30] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [31] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

    [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
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Check for newer version at [32]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002
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      [32] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Eric/Erik/
Succeeded: s/this here/this year/
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Found Scribe: anthony
Inferring ScribeNick: anthony
Default Present: [Microsoft], Shepazu, ChrisL, jwatt, ed, anthony
Present: [Microsoft] Shepazu ChrisL jwatt ed anthony
Found Date: 11 Jan 2010
Guessing minutes URL: [33]http://www.w3.org/2010/01/11-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: anthony ed

      [33] http://www.w3.org/2010/01/11-svg-minutes.html

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      [34] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Monday, 11 January 2010 21:42:57 GMT

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