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Minutes, SVG Telcon, 23 Nov 2009

From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:46:15 -0500
Message-ID: <4B0D7B77.5030803@w3.org>
To: www-svg <www-svg@w3.org>
Hi, SVG Folks-

Here are the minutes for the SVG WG telcon of 23 Nov 2009:

   http://www.w3.org/2009/11/23-svg-minutes.html

Or as text below:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

23 Nov 2009

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2009/11/23-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           ed, Shepazu, jwatt, Chris_Lilley, [IPcaller], anthony

    Regrets
    Chair
           ed

    Scribe
           anthony

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]SVG 1.1 2nd Ed
          2. [5]list activity
          3. [6]DOM constructors
      * [7]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 23 November 2009

    \me zakim, drop shepazu

    <scribe> scribenick: shepazu

SVG 1.1 2nd Ed

    <ed> [8]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

       [8] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

    <ed> 12 open issues, 22 open actions

    issue-2013?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2013 -- Percentages in clipPath/pattern/filter/mask
    unintuitive -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [9]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2013

       [9] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2013

    <ChrisL> issue-2013?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2013 -- Percentages in clipPath/pattern/filter/mask
    unintuitive -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [10]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2013

      [10] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2013

    <ed> moved to SVG Core 2.0

    Resolution: we will move this to SVG 2.0

    issue-2017?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2017 -- Find sane values for getSubStringLength and
    selectSubString -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2017

      [11] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2017

    <ed> ACTION-2325?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2325 -- Doug Schepers to propose wording and
    examples for ISSUE-2107 -- due 2008-10-30 -- CLOSED

    <trackbot> [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2325

      [12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2325

    <ed>
    [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/023
    9.html

      [13] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0239.html

    <ed> [14]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-svg-minutes.html#action02

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-svg-minutes.html#action02

    ed: heycam didn't see a strong argument either way
    ... what should we do with this? close it or take it up again?

    jwatt: acid3 depends on this behavior?

    ed: it did at one time
    ... we did change the behavior in the spec for the better

    <ed>
    [15]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/changes.html#TextCh
    apter

      [15] 
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/changes.html#TextChapter

    shepazu: we might look at this more closely in SVG 2.0

    ed: right

    <ChrisL> i think its closed, for 1.1

    jwatt: the current errata makes sense to me

    resolution: close the issue

    issue-2071?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2071 -- potential security hole involving
    pointer-events, filters, foreignObject, cross-origin IFRAMEs, and
    elementFromPoint -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2071

      [16] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2071

    resolution: move to SVG 2.0

    issue-2113?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2113 -- animate-elem-35 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2113

      [17] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2113

    <ed> ISSUE-2213?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2213 -- Some issues in the definition of
    suspendRedraw/unsuspendRedraw/forceRedraw -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2213

      [18] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2213

    resolution: defer to SVG 2.0

    issue-2217?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2217 -- How units are resolved on an SVGLength is
    not defined -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2217

      [19] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2217

    Resolution: move to SVG 2.0

    issue-2219?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2219 -- Missing test coverage for SVG 1.1
    properties -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2219

      [20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2219

    jwatt: we should put this off until we decide on the new test format

    Resolution: resolve in SVG 2.0

    issue-2259?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2259 -- Inconsistent use of <uri> symbol -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2259

      [21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2259

    <ed>
    [22]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#ClipPa
    thProperty

      [22] 
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#ClipPathProperty

    ed: didn't we resolve this in second edition?

    ChrisL: basically, this is rolling in changes we made in SVGT1.2
    ... it should be easy to do

    <scribe> ACTION: ChrisL to make funcURI consistent, and update tests
    [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2009/11/23-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2697 - Make funcURI consistent, and update
    tests [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-11-30].

    <ed>
    [24]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/types.html#Interfac
    eSVGViewSpec

      [24] 
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/types.html#InterfaceSVGViewSpec

    <ChrisL> issue-2263?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2263 -- The attributes on the SVGViewSpec interface
    are underspecified -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [25]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2263

      [25] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2263

    shepazu: we will have to reexamine this in the context of the new
    SVG DOM API, anyway

    Resolution: defer to SVG 2.0

    issue-2294?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2294 -- Adding an animated length attribute into a
    baseval length list -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2294

      [26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2294

    jwatt: I was going to write an email about this...
    ... maybe we need some custom error about removing items from the
    original list (readonly)
    ... maybe we should have a "copy" method?
    ... let's address this in the new DOM API

    Resolution: move to SVG 2.0

    issue-2299?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2299 -- Text on a path layout rules unclear wrt
    startpoint-on-the-path and text-anchor -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2299

      [27] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2299

    ChrisL: I don't think they are contradictory, they seem to be saying
    the same thing in different ways
    ... it's using "start point" for 2 different things...
    ... it's talking about shifting the initial start point

    ed: it's ambiguous enough that implementations all do different
    things
    ... but I'm not sure it's critical for SVG 1.1 2nd ed.

    shepazu: I want this fixed because it's important... could we start
    a 3rd edition errata in addition to SVG 2.0?

    ChrisL: we could do... we need to test all of this better, too

    ed: one way to start off easy is to have a straight line as the
    textPath for tests that describe the start point

    ChrisL: good idea

    resolution: keep as SVG 1.1 3rd edition errata, but duplicate for
    SVG 2.0, to make sure it's addressed in both

    issue-2301?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2301 -- Text on a path layout rules unclear wrt
    startpoint-on-the-path and text-anchor (svg2) -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2301

      [28] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2301

    ed: 23 pending actions left

    s23 pending actions left/23 pending actions left left left

    action-2077?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2077 -- Erik Dahlström to test implementations for
    percentage values in clipPath, etc. -- due 2008-07-03 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [29]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2077

      [29] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2077

    action-2203?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2203 -- Doug Schepers to add to the 1.1 Full
    errata that the initial value for the root overflow property is
    scroll rather than hidden -- due 2008-09-30 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [30]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2203

      [30] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2203

    action-2404?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2404 -- Doug Schepers to add errata item for root
    overflow -- due 2009-01-22 -- CLOSED

    <trackbot> [31]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2404

      [31] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2404

list activity

    ed: discussion about transforms, getIntersectionList, DOM
    constructors, image clarification, z-index

    ChrisL: I wonder if alex addressed this to their satisfaction?
    ... a good example might help

    <ChrisL> suppose a filter brings in a greyscale image with feimage,
    then we do an rgb fecomponenttransfer. that should work

    <ChrisL> it wont give an error

    <ChrisL> so that is what "as it its promoted to RGBA" means

    ChrisL: when we say, "implement as if...", then things that fall out
    of the model still have to work
    ... action to respond to image clarification email with concrete
    example

    <scribe> ACTION: ChrisL to respond to image clarification email with
    concrete example [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2009/11/23-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2698 - Respond to image clarification
    email with concrete example [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-11-30].

    ed: anthony addressed the transforms issues
    ... Dr. Olaf pointed to his older email... did we address this?

    anthony: not sure

    ChrisL: Dr. Olaf raised a good point, CSS didn't consider animation
    when they specified angles, which need to be normalized, and since
    they now have animation this affects them too... we should raise
    this with the CSS WG

    anthony: I'll take a crack at replying to Dr. Olaf

DOM constructors

    <anthony> scribe: anthony

    DS: Just started off with basically describing
    ... what we had proposed
    ... because he didn't read the proposal page
    ... just ready the 'what sort of problems we have' page
    ... he also proposed that we use the innerHTML method for larger
    document fragments
    ... and Brois said that innerHTML has been optimised because
    browsers have to parse already
    ... so that's one thing they optermise for
    ... Boris seemed to be have mixed responses about sending in a
    property bag object for element constructors would help the
    performance
    ... I definitely under the impression from taking to implementers
    that setting attributes individually was a huge performance hit

    <shepazu> ChrisL: if it's done right, it should be a performance
    gain, and is never a performance hit

    CL: It can be an atomic operation

    <shepazu> shepazu: and it's much nicer for authoring

    DS: It's much nicer for authors

    <shepazu> shepazu: Jeff may not have considered the issue of the
    namespace of an element when he criticized using createElement as an
    element method

    <shepazu> shepazu: jwatt, what's your impression?

    <shepazu> jwatt: boris seemed to refute some of the performance
    points that Jeff pointed to

    <shepazu> ... but it's about ease of authoring, not so much
    performance

    <shepazu> ... boris says it's hard to predict performance

    <ed>
    [33]http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#html-fragment-parsing
    -algorithm

      [33] 
http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#html-fragment-parsing-algorithm

    <shepazu> ed: have we verified that innerHTML would work with SVG?

    <shepazu> ... I'm reading it, and it doesn't seem great for SVG

    <shepazu> jwatt: I can test it, don't know offhand

    <shepazu> ACTION: jwatt to test innerHTML for applicability to SVG
    [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2009/11/23-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2699 - to test innerHTML for applicability
    to SVG [on Jonathan Watt - due 2009-11-30].

    <shepazu> shepazu: speaking of this, what's the standard way of
    doing ASV's printNode?

    <shepazu> jwatt: I have a wrapper

    <jwatt> [35]http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/wrappers.js

      [35] http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/wrappers.js

    <shepazu> ed: maybe for innerHTML, it needs to be put into the
    foreign-content mode...

    <shepazu> ... otherwise you have to wrap everything in <svg>

    <ChrisL> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
    rv:1.9.3a1pre) Gecko/20091122 Minefield/3.7a1pre

    <ed> <html><svg id="foo">...</svg><script>$("foo").innerHTML="<rect
    width='100' height='100' fill='green'/></html>

    <shepazu> ed: anything that conflicts with HTML element names might
    cause a problem

    <ed> so test <font>, <video>, <audio>, <textArea>... any others?

    <shepazu> jwatt: about the F2F... I'm probably not coming

    <shepazu> ... mozilla thinks 4 meetings a year is too frequent

    <shepazu> shepazu: actually, I think it's 3 meetings a year now

    <shepazu> shepazu: maybe we should examine who would be able to
    attend

    <shepazu> ed: what about relocating it?

    <shepazu> trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: ChrisL to make funcURI consistent, and update tests
    [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2009/11/23-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: ChrisL to respond to image clarification email with
    concrete example [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2009/11/23-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: jwatt to test innerHTML for applicability to SVG
    [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2009/11/23-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]
Received on Wednesday, 25 November 2009 18:46:18 GMT

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