W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-svg@w3.org > June 2009

Re: Agenda, June 22 2009 SVG WG telcon

From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:17:30 +1000
Message-ID: <4A3F3E1A.5040403@cisra.canon.com.au>
To: www-svg@w3.org
http://www.w3.org/2009/06/22-svg-minutes.html

---

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

22 Jun 2009

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009AprJun/0232.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/06/22-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Shepazu, anthony, heycam, jwatt

    Regrets
    Chair
           Cameron

    Scribe
           anthony

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Remaining 1.1 errata to be folded in and tests to be
             written
          2. [6]Mailing minutes to www-svg
          3. [7]DVCS for SVG WG work
          4. [8]public-svg-wg: SVG 1.2 Animation question
          5. [9]www-svg: icc color profile valid names
          6. [10]www-svg: accessKey - label and alternative keys
      * [11]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 22 June 2009

    <scribe> Scribe: anthony

Remaining 1.1 errata to be folded in and tests to be written

    [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Errata_in_SVG_1.1_Second_
    Edition

      [12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Errata_in_SVG_1.1_Second_Edition

    AG: I have about two or three tests to write

    CM: Still a few errata that needs to be folded in still
    ... clip path one
    ... and Liveness of getIntersectionList

    JW: Still have to do that one

    DS: JW had a few problems with the clip path one

    JW: Re pointer events

    DS: Yes
    ... don't think we should think about rolling this out until JW can
    get back and finish his quota

    JW: I should get back to that next week

    AG: Still need to run the script over test suite

    CM: Is the comment history lost in the conversion?

    AG: Yes
    ... I like what Erik has done on the wiki page with commenting what
    tests have been done
    ... and what needs to be done

    CM: Good idea
    ... Mobile 1.1 spec was fixed to have dated links
    ... so we will be ok for publishing

    AG: You did the changes CM?

    CM: Yes

Mailing minutes to www-svg

    CM: DS You've emailed out about this?

    DS: I saw your reminder and have done it
    ... thought it would be a good idea before minutes get sent out

    CM: It would be good if CL was here to discuss it further

    AG: I'm ok with proposal

    JW: Do we need to discuss further the disclaimer on each email?

    DS: Don't think so

    JW: Don't think we need to put a disclaimer when we send minutes?

    DS: Anyone who is already subscribed to the list is already going to
    know about it
    ... lets not bother with sending a disclaimer
    ... so what this means when we send the minutes we will send them to
    www-svg like we would normally and BCC the public-svg-wg list

    AG: Usage of public-svg-wg?

    CM: Still used for technical discussion

    DS: It says in the minutes it says most of our technical work will
    take place on the working group list
    ... that is what we are charted to do
    ... I think we should do what comes naturally next
    ... CL will probably want to conduct work on the working group list
    ... for conversations that start from minutes will be on the www-svg
    list
    ... the public might have comments

    CM: We'd expect most of the comments from the public to be positive

    <heycam> (joke)

    DS: conversations will happen wherever it seems more natural, even
    though charter historically says we'll work on WG list

DVCS for SVG WG work

    CM: I emailed Dominic on W3C who works part time on the systems team
    ... and asked if it was possible to set up DVCS
    ... JW you have good experience with Mercurial
    ... Dominic replied to me saying the systems team doesn't have
    enough resources to set that up
    ... During the F2F we discussed one of us hosting the repository
    ... That has the downside of the repository not being on a W3C
    address

    DS: Didn't Dom say that we could host it on W3C but someone in the
    team would have to do it

    CM: He said it would be more cost effective for someone in the group
    to host it

    DS: Wondering if I could put it on my personal space
    ... I think I can run scripts
    ... I'd need root access?

    JW: It's a repository where people can copy from
    ... but can't push back
    ... unless you have root access
    ... If the team doesn't have the resources we either continue
    working with stuff
    ... that's getting further behind
    ... or break away and move to something new

    DS: I'm not particularly comfortable with having work on another
    server
    ... makes it hard to find out what's going on

    <ed_work> nothing prevents someone from running a dvcs solution
    locally and then committing changes to cvs

    DS: would rather tackle it head on and find resources for W3C space
    ... rather than push work out
    ... I'd rather push the issue with the systems team

    <ed_work> and yes, I agree with DS that the main repo should be
    hosted at w3c

    DS: and at least get them to give me root access to set those things
    up
    ... are we experienced enough to know exactly what needs doing?

    JW: No

    DS: Step 1 is to know exactly what we are asking of them

    JW: I can start step 2 or 3 before going to them
    ... another step to take is to set up a dummy repository
    ... so that people who are not familiar with DVCS can get to know it
    better
    ... does that make sense?

    DS: No

    JW: So it's just the members that will be using DVCS?

    DS: Yes
    ... so you're saying we should test it out to see if that's what we
    really really want?

    CM: I have a feeling that the systems team want to set it up
    ... so it will integrate into their Database
    ... to make it easier to set permissions

    JW: I've tried an SSH key thing with this and I don't know if it
    will that bigger change
    ... but I will check with the Mozilla people
    ... and get step by step instructions on what's involved

    DS: You could check with them if they are willing to help the
    systems team to set it up
    ... should find other resources that are willing to help out the
    systems team
    ... not sure if they're open to that
    ... but if you can find out, we can go from there

    CM: I do have root access on my hosted machine
    ... So if we want to set up a test machine
    ... I can put it on there
    ... one of the worries you had DS was it moves things more out of
    the team

    DS: Yes and I think it's harder for people to discover what's going
    on
    ... and decreases the W3 value and brand

    CM: It would be a shame to lose some of the services
    ... well experimenting with the system and JW finding out if he can
    get information on setting it up
    ... is a good way forward
    ... not sure how open the systems team is with getting help

    DS: One problem is some things are team confidential
    ... we have people who are members of the team who are W3C fellows
    ... they have team access but work for another employer
    ... I don't see how it would be much different

public-svg-wg: SVG 1.2 Animation question

    [13]http://www.w3.org/mid/A13D0B44629697468E9C6AE200CFD39A715E3A0A7E
    @mailkeeper.mdigitalm.com

      [13] 
http://www.w3.org/mid/A13D0B44629697468E9C6AE200CFD39A715E3A0A7E@mailkeeper.mdigitalm.com

    CM: Someone from Quickoffice pointing out an error in one of the
    tests
    ... One of the tests is testing for calling beginElement and
    endElement for methods on timeControl
    ... and they insert begin and end on the elements
    ... and he thinks one of tests shouldn't begin an animation when
    beginElement is called
    ... the test description assumes that should work
    ... but according to the SMIL spec it shouldn't work
    ... he attached a reduced version of the test slide
    ... and I read through the SMIL spec
    ... and went through the test slide
    ... and I agree with him, at least for the reduced version

    AG: Is there any problems in Tiny at all?

    CM: All the info is in SMIL spec. We refer to it
    ... I will confirm that the actual problem is in the test
    ... and email back to the list

    <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to Check udom-svg-209.svg test case for the
    problem of beginElement pointed out by Quickoffice [recorded in
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2626 - Check udom-svg-209.svg test case
    for the problem of beginElement pointed out by Quickoffice [on
    Cameron McCormack - due 2009-06-29].

    CM: We should fix any issues pointed out and republish the test
    suite

www-svg: icc color profile valid names

    [15]http://www.w3.org/mid/9a7916a70906200154i3991d5e3sfda2ce940d7d6f
    20@mail.gmail.com

      [15] 
http://www.w3.org/mid/9a7916a70906200154i3991d5e3sfda2ce940d7d6f20@mail.gmail.com

    CM: Email about what are valid names for icc-profile
    ... CL added some syntax the colour module
    ... I have an action to port those changes back to 1.1 2nd edition
    ... someone should reply to him point back to the module
    ... and mention it will be ported across

www-svg: accessKey - label and alternative keys

    [16]http://www.w3.org/mid/op.uvn9opyyidj3kv@zcorpandell.linkoping.os
    a

      [16] http://www.w3.org/mid/op.uvn9opyyidj3kv@zcorpandell.linkoping.osa

    CM: Simon was asking about accessKeys
    ... I think he's asking about giving a particular label to animation
    starting and animation finishing
    ... and wants to extract from the document
    ... start animation and have some associated access key
    ... suggests a couple of ways to include that information

    <ed_work> hmm...I was almost certain that I did respond to this

    <ed_work> the problem with the label() syntax is that it causes the
    begin/end value to be interpreted as "indefinite"

    CM: I guess it's syntax currently not allowed

    <ed_work> I'd originally thought it was per list-item, but it's
    actually the whole value

    DS: I think accessKey is pretty crappy
    ... the access specification on XHTML 2 Access spec also has the
    same functionality along with some interesting functionality
    ... This is also something I'm looking at in the context of DOM3
    Events
    ... on problem with accessKey is it only allows you to type
    characters
    ... it doesn't allow you to say on tap do this or on shift do this
    ... this is something that could be solved by the key identifiers in
    DOM3 Events
    ... so rather than giving a list of keys

    <ed_work> that's not the concern he's raising though, it's more
    about labelling what accesskey actions there are (for
    discoverability)

    DS: they give a list of key identifiers
    ... I understand what ED is saying
    ... I'm just saying that patching up an old system is probably not a
    good idea
    ... I don't mind patching it up
    ... but I'd rather we came up with a better solution

    <heycam> ed_work, did your reply deal with the labelling aspect
    (modulo where you'd put that information)?

    <ed_work> it's really not about patching up, even in ARIA there's no
    way to label an attribute in a way that can be used for begin/end

    <ed_work> one solution might be to have some attribute to associate
    a <title> with a particular attribute, role or aria-*

    DS: Within the constraints that Dr Olaf mentioned, I don't mind
    making the accessKey in SVG similar to the accessKey in HTML5 I just
    don't think it's a very good long term solution

    CM: What about the issue of labeling?

    DS: You mean discoverability?

    CM: Yes

    DS: Comes down to UA dependent

    CM: I think he has particular UI in mind and wants to have some
    custom label string so it can be put in UI somewhere

    DS: You mean labeling?

    CM: Yes

    <shepazu>
    [17]http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/ED-xhtml-access-20090423/

      [17] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/ED-xhtml-access-20090423/

    <ed_work> adding an 'aria-attributelabel' that has as value the name
    of the attribute it describes maybe, then having multiple title
    elements as children of the animate/animateMotion or whatever

    DS: Basically mimics a screen reader in some ways
    ... Tie something to a role or class
    ... Having the child text content of this element can be used the
    label for the navigation ring or something

    CM: Instead of the title ement?

    DS: Yes
    ... It doesn't define what the behaviour would be, you can either
    navigate to it or navigate to other elements
    ... in the case of SVG animation you might want to define a set of
    behaviours
    ... stop, start

    CM: With the animation element, but with other elements perhaps
    other things

    DS: I'd like to do things declaratively. I'd like to describe what
    those keys map to and then describe them in the body of the element

    CM: Let's wait for ED to find the email reply and forward it to the
    thread

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to Check udom-svg-209.svg test case for the
    problem of beginElement pointed out by Quickoffice [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2009/06/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [19]scribe.perl version 1.135
     ([20]CVS log)
     $Date: 2009/06/22 08:10:09 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [19] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [20] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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