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Minutes, SVG Telcon, 10 Dec 2009

From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:28:28 +1100
Message-ID: <4B2167FC.6020406@cisra.canon.com.au>
To: www-svg@w3.org
http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html

---

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

10 Dec 2009

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Shepazu, [IPcaller], ed, anthony

    Regrets
    Chair
           Erik

    Scribe
           anthony

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Next Telcon
          2. [5]Face-to-face
          3. [6]Collaboration with CSS
          4. [7]DOM3 Event TransformX/Y
          5. [8]SVG 1.1
      * [9]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 10 December 2009

    <scribe> Scribe: anthony

Next Telcon

    DS: The next Telcon will be the 6th
    ... no wait
    ... Monday January 4th 2010

    AG: I might not be there for that telcon
    ... flying back from Townsville

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Email the SVG Working Group list informing
    members when the next telcon is going to be (after the break)
    [recorded in
    [10]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2704 - Email the SVG Working Group list
    informing members when the next telcon is going to be (after the
    break) [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-12-17].

Face-to-face

    DS: We do not have quorum for meeting in Sydney
    ... so will have to cancel that

    AG: So when will the next F2F be?
    ... or will it still be around that time?

    ED: When is Libre graphics?

    <ed> [11]http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/index_static.html

      [11] http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/index_static.html

    DS: AKA LGM, is Belgium

    ED: 26th to 29th May 2010

    DS: If we are going to have a meeting before then
    ... JWatt said Feb works for him

    <ed> [12]http://www.fosdem.org/2010/

      [12] http://www.fosdem.org/2010/

    ED: There is also Fosdem

    <ed> 6-7 feb 2010

    <ed> also brussels

    ED: JWatt didn't want a conflict with

    DS: So anytime around then works for me
    ... and I guess we'll be going to Europe
    ... if we going to have one at all
    ... I've been thinking about a DOM API summit
    ... get a bunch of people together
    ... for a couple of days
    ... and work out a good API
    ... get a bunch of requirements
    ... have people put forward proposals
    ... then have a discussion and hopefully come up with a model
    ... that can be used
    ... some major browser vendors have offered to host it
    ... Erik can you fly to the US in Jan/Feb?
    ... or March?

    ED: March would be fine

    DS: It wouldn't be exclusively SVG
    ... if we had it on the West coast, it might help JWatt
    ... This might be a fruitful alternative to an SVG F2F

    AG: Have this as an alternative?

    DS: Have 2 or 3 days SVG F2F and then a DOM Summit
    ... Might even have more days than that - 5 days depending how long
    people can attend for

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to Look into details of a DOM summit/SVG
    meeting [recorded in
    [13]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2705 - Look into details of a DOM
    summit/SVG meeting [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-12-17].

    DS: I guess we can't really decide right now where the next F2F will
    be

Collaboration with CSS

    DS: I spoke with a Designer on the CSS WG - Tab Atkins
    ... he's the editor on the CSS Gradients specification

    <shepazu> [14]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/Overview.html

      [14] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/Overview.html

    DS: it's actually CSS Image Values
    ... we talked about his proposal
    ... there are some things that seem very funky to me
    ... with the syntax
    ... somethings you can do that you can't do with SVG gradients
    ... We agreed that we want the models as similar as possible
    ... including the syntax
    ... how would you guys feel about forming a task force with CSS
    Working Group
    ... and working on some things with them
    ... It would part of the Paint Servers work

    AG: As long as it can be extend at some point

    ED: There's also text shadow as well

    DS: These are some of things we should be collaborating on
    ... making sure they have the same syntax will be a real win for
    authors
    ... I propose we act on it
    ... I asked PLH about this
    ... He supported the idea as long as the deliverable is in the
    Charter
    ... a Taskforce is something the Chairs set up
    ... and had nothing to do with the Team
    ... So Erik is it possible to do this

    ED: Sounds likes a good idea

    DS: You will have to write to the CSS WG with a formal proposal

    AG: Just looking at the CSS Gradients
    ... it looks like the geometry of the gradient is modified according
    to the bounding box of the gradient
    ... well at least it can be specified to behave that way
    ... wouldn't be hard to do in SVG, just need another parameter

    DS: They can specify a start point and an angle rather than an end
    point

    AG: That's also not a bad idea

    DS: So there's a lot of points that we can collaborate on
    ... and CSS WG has designers which might be able to help us

DOM3 Event TransformX/Y

    DS: We all no this problem
    ... if you write a drag and drop script
    ... as soon as you introduce transforms or a viewBox and you try to
    drag it
    ... X/Y are offset from where the mouse pointer is
    ... and it is really painful
    ... JWatt proposed putting this into DOM 3 Events
    ... since CSS has proposed Transforms
    ... they will run into the same problems
    ... as we did
    ... I'm proposing for DOM 3 Events
    ... we have Tx/Ty
    ... Transform X and Transform Y
    ... and it unwinds the transformation matrix to get the actual
    viewPort X and Y
    ... client X and client Y would be good if they had the right
    algorithms behind them but they don't

    AG: If we have to unwind the matrix
    ... we'd have to get the inverse matrix
    ... is that right ED?

    ED: Yes, can't always get the inverse

    <ed> [15]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invertible_matrix

      [15] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invertible_matrix

    AG: The idea has merit but there some cases where it will fail

    DS: Where abouts?

    ED: Scale 0
    ... trying to think of other cases

    DS: If there are predictable cases you could specify don't do
    calculations on these cases

    ED: You can do a a cheap calculation to determine if you can get an
    inverse
    ... but you may not want to do that all the time

    DS: I'll show you both the script I'm working on
    ... and you can give me feedback over email

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to Send in details to the list on DOM 3
    Transform X/Y for feedback [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2706 - Send in details to the list on DOM
    3 Transform X/Y for feedback [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-12-17].

    <ed> [17]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinant

      [17] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinant

    ED: If you want the math behind it, you can calculate the
    determinant

    <ed> for a 3x3 matrix: det (A) = aei - afh + bfg - bdi + cdh - ceg.

    ED: which will tell you if the matrix is invertable

    <ed> if that's 0 it's noninvertible

    ED: Are you suggesting to have properties on the Event interface?

    DS: Yes, on any event that has x, y attributes, like the mouse event
    interface event types
    ... you'd also have Tx, Ty
    ... that would be the value in the transformation space of the
    element
    ... Any place we have transform it would be nice to have the
    individual attributes
    ... Translate X, Translate Y, etc
    ... It would be nice to just have those individual transforms and
    have a predefined order they are applied in

SVG 1.1

    ED: Converting Opera internal intersection list tests
    ... to use the W3C template
    ... and reviewing the tests that Cameron wrote
    ... there are two or three tests on my to-do list

    DS: There's a couple of actions I can do

    AG: Same

    <ed> [18]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

      [18] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

    ED: The Java bindings appendix is done

    <scribe> ... pending review

    UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: the other one I'm doing is intersection list and
    clarification for that
    ... I might be able to take on more actions
    ... if people are having trouble with
    ... was thinking of taking ACTION-2676

    <scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Send Doug the location of the tables for
    the integration specification [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2707 - Send Doug the location of the
    tables for the integration specification [on Anthony Grasso - due
    2009-12-17].

    Happy Holidays everyone!

    <ChrisL> sorry to miss the call gus, i had a transition call to do,
    standing in for plh

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Send Doug the location of the tables for
    the integration specification [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to Look into details of a DOM summit/SVG meeting
    [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to Send in details to the list on DOM 3 Transform
    X/Y for feedback [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Email the SVG Working Group list informing
    members when the next telcon is going to be (after the break)
    [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [24]scribe.perl version 1.135
     ([25]CVS log)
     $Date: 2009/12/10 21:25:37 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [24] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [25] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Received on Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:29:14 GMT

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