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RE: [1.2T-LC] i18n comment 6: Direction and bidi-override attributes (ISSUE-2107)

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 15:53:18 -0000
To: "'Doug Schepers'" <schepers@w3.org>
Cc: <www-svg@w3.org>, <public-i18n-core@w3.org>
Message-ID: <012b01c93dcc$4ae53d90$e0afb8b0$@org>

> >>> What *would really* be helpful, would be the possibility of
> >>> declaring the direction at the top of the document, ie. in the
> >>> svg element, and allowing it to cascade from there to all text
> >>> elements. In *that* case, you are much less likely to need to set
> >>> the properties on each text element, when working in a
> >>> right-to-left script. (And it will save a lot of typing for the
> >>> poor Middle Eastern authors.)
> >>
> >> This is indeed the case, because we inherit inheritance from CSS.
> >> How about we add an explanatory note for authors, explaining that
> >> this can be done?
> >
> > I think this is a very good idea.  See my proposed text above - maybe
> > that is enough?  Note also my assumption about applicability of
> > properties like direction and unicode-bidi to elements such as svg
> > and text etc.
> 
> Please review the revamped prose, and let me know if that works for that
> goal.  I think it does.
> 
> Let us know if this resolves this issue for you. 

I believe it does. Thank you.

RI

============
Richard Ishida
Internationalization Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)

http://www.w3.org/International/
http://rishida.net/



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Schepers [mailto:schepers@w3.org]
> Sent: 02 November 2008 20:29
> To: Richard Ishida
> Cc: www-svg@w3.org; public-i18n-core@w3.org
> Subject: Re: [1.2T-LC] i18n comment 6: Direction and bidi-override attributes
> (ISSUE-2107)
> 
> Hi, Richard-
> 
> Richard Ishida wrote (on 10/30/08 11:33 AM):
> >
> > Note that I still don't see direction or unicode-bidi in the element
> > table at
> > http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/elementTable.html
> >
> > I assume that this is because they are 'properties', and that the
> > green tick in the third column of elements such as svg, text, etc.
> > means that any property can be used with those elements.
> 
> That's correct.  In future specs, we will take steps to make this more
> clear, but that will take modifications to our build script.
> 
> 
> >> How about this: [[ In many cases, the bidirectional algorithm from
> >> [UNICODE] produces the desired result automatically, and overriding
> >> this algorithm properly is usually quite complex. Therefore, in
> >> many cases, such as when using Western scripts, authors are
> >> discouraged from assigning values to these properties.  When using
> >> right-to-left languages, it is recommended that these properties be
> >> set appropriately. ]]
> >
> > Hmm.  It may appear complex if you don't know what you are doing, but
> > it's not really that bad for people who need to work with rtl scripts
> > all the time.
> >
> > How about this: [[ In many cases, the bidirectional algorithm from
> > [UNICODE] produces the desired result automatically, and in such
> > cases the author does not need to use these properties. For other
> > cases, when using right-to-left languages, it may sufficient to add
> > the direction property to the svg element, and allow that direction
> > to inherit to all text elements. ]]
> 
> Sounds good, thanks.  I've added that to the spec. [1]
> 
> 
> >>> Perhaps it would be helpful to provide an example of the most
> >>> straightforward case, ie. unicode-bidi="embed" direction="rtl",
> >>> that people can cut&paste.
> >>
> >> That's a great idea.  We will add a Hebrew and/or Arabic example.
> >
> > I don't see this yet. Is that an oversight?
> 
> I've added an example [1], but I'm not very happy with it... I'd like to
> expand it, including passages in both Arabic as well as Hebrew, with a
> passage of ltr text in context.  If the i18n folks have a good example
> (maybe something canonical), I'll be grateful to include it.
> 
> 
> >>> What *would really* be helpful, would be the possibility of
> >>> declaring the direction at the top of the document, ie. in the
> >>> svg element, and allowing it to cascade from there to all text
> >>> elements. In *that* case, you are much less likely to need to set
> >>> the properties on each text element, when working in a
> >>> right-to-left script. (And it will save a lot of typing for the
> >>> poor Middle Eastern authors.)
> >>
> >> This is indeed the case, because we inherit inheritance from CSS.
> >> How about we add an explanatory note for authors, explaining that
> >> this can be done?
> >
> > I think this is a very good idea.  See my proposed text above - maybe
> > that is enough?  Note also my assumption about applicability of
> > properties like direction and unicode-bidi to elements such as svg
> > and text etc.
> 
> Please review the revamped prose, and let me know if that works for that
> goal.  I think it does.
> 
> Let us know if this resolves this issue for you. (I will address the
> 'text-align' issue, ISSUE-2171, in another email.)
> 
> [1]
> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/text.html#RelationshipWithBiDirecti
> onality
> 
> Regards-
> -Doug
Received on Monday, 3 November 2008 15:53:24 GMT

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