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Re: Whether to display inner or outermost <title>?

From: Jeff Schiller <codedread@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:49:24 -0500
Message-ID: <da131fde0808060749g3407b7a5k3030970277eecdd5@mail.gmail.com>
To: www-svg <www-svg@w3.org>, "Jonathan Chetwynd" <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>

Jonathan,

If an SVG file is included in an HTML:image tag, shouldn't its @alt
attribute be used when the images are turned off?  Are you suggesting
that if @alt is not present (or blank?) that the top-level <desc>
element in the SVG should be used?

Also, what should be the behavior of "Remove Images" when SVGs are
included in HTML pages in the following cases:

- inline SVG (within XHTML)
- included via SVG <object> (browsers treat <object> differently than
<image>, for instance allowing script)
- included via SVG <embed>

Should the browser remove the SVG graphics when images have been
turned off in any of the above cases?

Thanks,
Jeff

On 8/6/08, Jeff Schiller <codedread@gmail.com> wrote:
> Forgot to include mailing list.  I did look at the WebKit and Mozilla
>  bugs though and I think I understand what Jonathan means (it is as I
>  guessed below, when the images are disabled in a user agent).
>  However, my question about nested <desc> elements still needs to be
>  addressed.
>
>  Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>  On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 7:29 AM, Jeff Schiller <codedread@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 3:22 AM, Jonathan Chetwynd
>  > <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com> wrote:
>  >> 2. Doug asked how should <desc> be treated?  Should it also feed into the
>  >> tooltip?
>  >> if one is to meet user expectations regarding html desc content should be
>  >> displayed in the body of the window.
>  >
>  > Can you clarify what you mean by this?  I'm not clear when the desc
>  > should be displayed in the window (or I misunderstand what you mean by
>  > 'body of the window').  The spec explicitly states that the desc
>  > content should NOT be displayed
>  > (http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#DescriptionAndTitleElements)
>  > when the item is displayed visually:
>  >
>  > "When the current SVG document fragment is rendered as SVG on visual
>  > media, 'desc' and 'title' elements are not rendered as part of the
>  > graphics"
>  >
>  > If <title> becomes a tooltip, what does <desc> become?
>  >
>  > Are you talking about using svg root's <desc> as the alternative text
>  > when the item cannot be displayed visually?  If so, what to do about
>  > nested elements that have <desc> children?
>  >
>  > <svg>
>  >  <title>Bowl of Fruit</title>
>  >  <desc>This is a bowl of fruit depicting an orange, an apple, and
>  > some grapes</desc>
>  >
>  >  <g>
>  >    <desc>This is a red delicious apple</desc>
>  >  </g>
>  > </svg>
>  >
>  > Can you describe how (and when) you think the two <desc> elements
>  > should be displayed by the user agent?
>  >
>  >
>  >> Is it amazing that after a decade, no user agent has made any attempt to
>  >> display at this?
>  >
>  > It's never been very clear to me how it should be used - so it's not
>  > that amazing to me.  But it is amazing to me that it's been a decade
>  > since user agents have been displaying SVG...
>  >
>  > Thanks,
>  > Jeff
>  >
>
Received on Wednesday, 6 August 2008 14:49:59 GMT

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