W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-svg@w3.org > October 2004

Re: Demo app and SVG 1.2 comments

From: Philippe Lhoste <PhiLho@GMX.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:17:46 +0200
Message-ID: <417AA04A.3080709@GMX.net>
To: Kevin Hughes <kev@kevcom.com>
CC: www-svg@w3.org

Kevin Hughes wrote:
 >     Hello, everyone. I've made a small demonstration application, an SVG
 > color picker, which is my first foray into the world of SVG. You can
 > view it here:
 >
 >     http://www.kevcom.com/colorpicker/

Wow, this is quite impressive, definitively not your average "Hello 
World!" application!...

 >     Note I've only really tested it with the Adobe plug-in, and it works
 > best on Apple's Safari browser. If you go to the documentation first
 > you'll see a screenshot:
 >
 >     http://www.kevcom.com/colorpicker/documentation/index.html
 >
 >     I've also written some comments re: the 1.2 working draft, which you
 > can find here:
 >
 >     http://www.kevcom.com/colorpicker/documentation/svg.html#needed
 >
 >     All IMHO of course. Mostly I'm seconding what I think are really
 > good suggestions, having done a lot of Web development myself.

About your suggestions/gripes (as seen on the source of the SVG, I am 
not online right now):
- First problem, you mix implementation issues with pure specification 
misses. You should separate them. Now I understand them as notes jottled 
down when they come, so there is no particular order.
- Second "problem": some of your wishes are already planned in SVG 1.2, 
you should read the draft, if not already done (perhaps they are just an 
expression of strong needs on your side).

 > I can't get flattened submenus in the context (right-click) menu.
 > The cursor style is not recognized.
 > Background transparency doesn't work on Macs.

Implementation issues.

 > I can't determine the overall dimensions (extents/boundingbox) of the 
browser area.
NC
 > I can't specify dynamically calculated coordinates.
 > What about layout managers? The great thing about HTML is that it was 
one of the simplest layout managers around - tables, DIVs, etc.

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~clm/csvg/
and Google <svg constraints> for more links...

 > I can only get events with translated, not original, coordinates.
NC
 > Would like to set certain text elements as non-selectable (a 
"selectable" attribute).

Is it pointer-events="none" that you are looking for?

 > Would like the SVG canvas to be expandable/styled, like a DIV.
?
 > There should be an arc tag.

I agree, I made a remark about this some time ago, and obviously I was 
not the first one... Alas, it will not see the light in SVG 1.2.

 > The key/event model is screwed and inconsistent.
?
 > What about support for text blocks?

For SVG 1.2

 > Would be nice to use PHP instead of JS (via Parrot?).

And Lua! And other people will want Python, Ruby, Perl, VBScript...
Basically a nice idea, but in practice quite a mess, as you would need a 
specific viewer to see a given SVG...
Note that one could imagine a viewer with pluggable language, but still 
messy: "to see my SVG, download this language extension"...

 > Would be nice to allow events to "bubble down" to other objects.
NC

 > I can't work with external data (filesystem, network, URL, program).

URL, you can, with ASV (and Batik?): getURL and postURL.
Better support to come with SVG 1.2.
Other stuff (filesystem, program, clipboard) is:
- system dependent (more or less): it may not work on a phone
- dangerous (security risks).
Although usable on the desktop, SVG is still a client-side Web standard, 
we can't make anything with it.

 > It would be nice to have a zindex attribute.

Studied in SVG 1.2, and AFAIK, rejected in favor of layers.

 > It would be nice to get the color at a particular point.

Already discutted recently on this very list.
I can't remember the conclusion, if any...

 > Future musings:
 > SVG needs more multimedia support.

SVG 1.2 tries to improve this. They have trouble to find a good, open, 
free (no patent, no licence) video format. OggVobis seems a good choice 
for audio.

 > There's a big market for SVG apps if done right.

Tell that to viewer makers (notably in the phone/PDA field) and the tool 
makers! :-)

 > Web form tools with PDF workflows come to mind.
?
 > Apple should use SVG for its desktop widgets (Dashboard).
NC
 > How about a PHP LZX (Laszlo) to SVG realtime convertor?
?
 > Adobe must introduce SVG capability to desktops via Reader.

I agree. Currently, they even forbid reusing their ActiveX in a desktop 
application...

 > Meaning, when Reader is installed, the SVG plug-in is installed.

I believe it is already.

 > For Mac, must use the native Quartz! What gives?
?
 > Mixing code with objects in which it is used - LZX - is good.
?

Back on line...

Very good documentation (not fully read...), clear and comprehensive.
It is quite rare in a world where most of the work is spent on the 
application rather than on explaining it...

Your page on SVG... Mmm, you did read the SVG 1.2 spec., so you are 
expressing what seems the most important to you. And you know the CSVG 
too. I hope my remarks don't seems too pointless :-( I keep them anyway 
;-) they may interest some other people.

PS: your link to Laszlo is bad somehow, my browser displays:
"http://www.kevcom.com/colorpicker/documentation/<a href="
in its status bar...

-- 
Philippe Lhoste
--  (near) Paris -- France
--  Professional programmer and amateur artist
--  http://Phi.Lho.free.fr
--  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --
Received on Saturday, 23 October 2004 18:21:47 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Wednesday, 5 February 2014 23:39:55 UTC