W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-svg@w3.org > October 2004

Re: mouse alternatives

From: Jonathan Chetwynd <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:13:49 +0100
Message-Id: <CFF1D660-1CEF-11D9-A5AB-000A95C7D298@btinternet.com>
Cc: <www-svg@w3.org>
To: "Doug Schepers" <doug@schepers.cc>


I recognise your desire to help, but that isn't sufficient.
There was no personal attack intended, at all, and there is no sense in 
taking it as such.
How can anyone comment on keyboard accessibility if they don't 
understand the issues?
why not take the time out to look into the current problems with 
keyboard navigation such as access keys?
then your understanding may help define the issues more clearly.

shift-alt-click mouse move is hardly a gainly exercise for any 
individual, is there a good reason why arrowkeys aren't used?
defining this as an OS issue isn't that helpful.

OS accessibility has primarily been concerned with typing 
accessibility, a rather tight-knit group of editing applications, many 
of which are helpful to those with low vision.

SVG offers a very different interface, one that isn't necessarily type 
driven, but more likely GUI driven.
This means there is some overlap with current GUI accessibility, and 
there is potential for far more.
However unless this is planned early on, it is likely to go awry in a 
very similar manner to access keys.
This eventuality won't enable many users


Jonathan Chetwynd
http://www.peepo.co.uk     "It's easy to use"
On 13 Oct 2004, at 08:04, Doug Schepers wrote:


That is unfair and untrue. I have tried and am trying to come up with 
solutions for various accessibility issues.

When I said, offlist, that I did not have time to hang out in
irc.freenode.net#accessibility, I meant that and explicitly that. That
doesn't mean that I don't have time to explore accessibility. In fact, 
exploring accessibility right now, by making a written-text to 
animation tool in SVG. Please stop misrepresenting my intentions, 
and private statements in a public forum.

If you have technical reasons for disagreeing with me, or you think I've
misunderstood something, feel free to correct  me. But I don't think 
that this is the place for personal attacks.

On a technical note, if you'll reread what I said, I think you'll find 
we agree on the need for accessibility in SVG, and on the need for 
navigation. I just don't see how the issues you raised here and on
irc.freenode.net#svg (which deal with OS-level controls) are in the 
of SVG, and I tried to address them in terms of DOM-events.

Doug Schepers

Jonathan Chetwynd wrote:
| Doug,
| Please could you consider not replying to emails that contain
| the keyword 'accessibility'
| You've suggested offline that you 'haven't the time' to
| explore accessibility issues.
| Anyone wishing to make helpful comments on accessibility
| needs at least a desire to understand the issues.
| regards
| Jonathan Chetwynd
| http://www.peepo.co.uk     "It's easy to use"
| irc://freenode/accessibility
| On 12 Oct 2004, at 22:30, Doug Schepers wrote:
| Hi, Jonathan-
| I don't believe that it's appropriate for "mouse keys" to be
| explicitly defined in SVG.
| However, I *do* think that it's appropriate to include a
| mechanism for directional navigation, and to define a method
| to map keys to activities.
| Given these two abilities, I think that you would have the
| building blocks for such accessibility, and authors could
| then take matters into their own hands. Best practices and
| standardized accessibility specifications can allow the
| authors to produce variously accessible content.
| Regards-
| Doug Schepers
| doug . schepers  @ vectoreal.com
| www.vectoreal.com
| "Move into the future..."
| Jonathan Chetwynd wrote:
| |
| |
| | There has been a brief discussion on IRC#SVG, which has led
| to not a
| | little confusion on my part at least.
| |
| | What plans are there to enable 'mouse keys' in SVG?
| | By 'mouse keys' I understand the accessibility alternatives
| to mouse
| | navigation, that use the keyboard.
| | (not just tabbing but) Moving the mouse around the screen, dragging
| | objects, shift+apple+click+drag(mac)and other mouse interactivity.
| |
| | Is the WG actively engaged in ensuring that this accessibility is
| | being integrated?
| |
| | Some people have expressed the view that this is an OS
| issue, nothing
| | to do with SVG, and that in the meantime it is up to individuals to
| | create scripts to cover these eventualities.
| |
| | regards
| |
| | Jonathan Chetwynd
| | http://www.peepo.co.uk     "It's easy to use"
| | irc://freenode/accessibility
| |
| |
Received on Wednesday, 13 October 2004 08:14:22 UTC

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