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Re: SVG 1.2 Comment: Flowing text and graphics

From: Peter Sorotokin <psorotok@adobe.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 00:43:28 -0800
To: Boris Zbarsky <bzbarsky@MIT.EDU>, www-svg@w3.org
Message-id: <>

At 12:47 AM 11/23/2004 -0600, Boris Zbarsky wrote:

>This feels like a very cumbersome way to define the flow region... is 
>there a reason this isn't simply done by referencing an SVG shape instead 
>of introducing two new elements?

- text might need to flow from region to region
- exclusion regions
- flowRef element

For instance, consider a case when there are two rectangles and text is 
flown into a top one first and the bottom one second.

>This specification disallows the values of "start" and "end" for 
>text-align. What should happen if such values are, nevertheless, 
>set?  This is an issue both for mixed-namespace documents (in which there 
>is no clear reason to apply the modified SVG parsing rules) and in UAs in 
>which stylesheets may be shared between documents (some of which may be 
>SVG and some of which may be in other languages).

That is a good point. I think right now it is undefined. But we are between 
a rock and a hard place here: if we don't have a start/end values that work 
for both text directions, we get in trouble with 
internationalization-minded people and if we invent our own property we get 
in trouble with "reuse what's possible from CSS" people. The only reason 
why CSS could get away with no start/end are legacy reasons and we cannot 
hide behind those.

>What does "center" mean?  Centering with respect to what, exactly?

Every line is centered individually. Extra space in the line is divided 
between start and end.

>What does "justify" mean?

Every line is justified individually. Extra space in the line is divided 
between word spaces.

>In particular, what do "center" and "justify" do for a text region that is 
>a 3x3 square with the middle 1x1 square cut out, for text to the left or 
>right of the cut-out area?  Do they center/justify with respect to the 
>whole outer square, with respect to the piece of outer square to the left 
>or right of the cut-out area, or something else?

That is a good catch. We probably should define it more specifically.

>What happens if the line progression is not left to right?  The text here 
>only defines what happens when it's left to right.
>What does it mean to align to the top or bottom of the region, or to 
>vertically center, exactly?  For top and bottom, I would imagine you mean 
>to slide the block of text up (respectively down) as far as it can go 
>without extending out of the allowed geometry?  If so, please clearly 
>state so.  For "center", I'm really not sure what a reasonable 
>implementation would be.  This needs to be defined.



Received on Wednesday, 24 November 2004 08:45:07 UTC

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