W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-svg@w3.org > November 2004

Re: SVG 1.2 Comment: 4 Flowing text and graphics

From: Thomas DeWeese <Thomas.DeWeese@Kodak.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 13:44:51 -0500
Message-ID: <418D1BA3.4020308@Kodak.com>
To: David Woolley <david@djwhome.demon.co.uk>
CC: www-svg@w3.org

David Woolley wrote:

>>which case the text is just gone.  In a graphic there is a very
>>big difference between two lines of text and three, this isn't
> 
> If it matters, the wrapping should be done server side.  The only
> real point in allowing client side wrapping is that it allows the
> client to wrap differently, to fit with local constraints, e.g. 
> a limited choice of fonts or a user that needs larger fonts.

    There are several problems with the above:
	1) You assume that all the content originates on the server.
	   I can see environment where several sources of information
            are combined on the client.
	2) You assume that the flow regions can't/won't change on the
            client.  In a dynamic document there is a high likelihood
            that text content may be moved, and resized - leading to a
	   need to rewrap the text.
	3) You assume that the server defines the content.  In SVG
            clients may be manipulating & updating graphics, just
	   as bloggers update HTML currently.

> If the issue is animation, then you need to look into better ways of
> describing the animation, especially where objects can suffer step moves.
> You will still have had to explore the whole parameter space server side,
> if you don't want to get caught out by even the best behaving client.

     Sure if we just send an MPEG movie all the problems go away.

>>     This is a good thing, to a point, but when renderers produce
>>results that diverge too much artists will stop using it and will
> 
> Personally, I find art gets in the way of using web sites.  What I 
> would want SVG for is line diagrams, maps, etc.  At home, I don't have
> Flash; in the office "group policies" mean that I have it, but I'm getting
> more and more Flash blind.

    What about a family tree collaborative environment where clients
can add new people drag boxes out, arrange them, put names in the
boxes.  They still don't want the text to 'rewrap' for the next
person, losing a line of description.

>>return to JPG and PNG 
> 
> Firstly you have to get them to move away from JPG and GIF (PNG is also a
> problem area) in the first place.  Until SVG images are supported out of
> the box, on most home and office PCs, I can't see that happening.  On the
> desk top, if SVG is only used by people who have voluntarily installed it
> (or a minority browser that supports it), I would think that most uses
> would be technical, with maybe some specialist SVG art communities.

    Well if you don't let them do what they need to do they will never
move away.  A large part of the advantage of SVG over raster formats
is the ability to do 'dynamic' things on the client.  If those dynamic
things include text then you need word wrap.  If you are going to have
word wrap in a _graphics_ format then you need to have a high level of
consistency, otherwise it isn't 'graphics'.

> On mobile devices is almost certainly where one wants most freedom to 
> compromise the rendering to match the platform limitations (e.g. by using
> the platform fonts for body text sizes).

    There are outs for this case.  Also remember in SVG the typical way
to get larger text size is to simply zoom in - an option that isn't
really available in most (any?) HTML browsers.
Received on Saturday, 6 November 2004 18:44:54 UTC

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