W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-svg@w3.org > November 2002

Re: Tinier SVG

From: Simon St.Laurent <simonstl@simonstl.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:25:22 -0500
To: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
cc: www-svg@w3.org
Message-ID: <r01050400-1021-206307BDF71C11D6A6700003937A08C2@[192.168.124.21]>

chris@w3.org (Chris Lilley) writes:
>Yes, all that stuff is still in there. It was not designed by SVG
>authors so much as by SVG implementors, particularly some big names in
>the Mobile industry. So, clearly, they think the features both have
>value and are implementable.

Industry implementors... sputter...

>Animation is seen as a key requirement, even for Tiny - static
>graphics are not too interesting for cellphones.

Unless you're actually trying to do work which only requires static
images.

>JPEG images are an obvious thing to keep given the number of phones
>with color screens and little cameras, which are nearly ubiquitous in
>Japan and the rest of the world is catching up fast.

Some of us neanderthals are still working in black and white.

>You would have a hard job using less than four places of decimals if
>the viewBox is 0 0 1 1 and you plan to zoom in at all (but we relax
>precision constraints to allow fixed point arithmetic for mobile).

I'll take a look at those constraints.

>Have you looked at TinyLine, a JavaME implementation of SVG Tiny?
>
>http://www.tinyline.com/svgt/index.html
>http://www.tinyline.com/svgt/report/index.html
>http://www.tinyline.com/svgt/download/index.html
>
>It runs on various devices such as any J2ME phone, the Sharp Zaurus,
>etc. It includes smil animation, and JPEG images.

It doesn't run on "any J2ME phone" - it runs on the J2ME Personal
Profile.  The J2ME Mobile Information Device Profile is the profile that
runs on most J2ME phones, and it doesn't even acknowledge floating-point
arithmetic.  The Personal Profile just emerged, and it's interesting
stuff, but it's not exactly "tiny" itself.

>The zip of the classfiles is 96 kilobytes. I agree SVGT could be made
>smaller by cutting functionality, but its a nice sweet spot in terms
>of capabilities and seems to fit will with what the devices are
>offering in terms of imaging devices.

96K is nice unless you only have 64K to work with, the basic constraint
for J2ME MIDP work.

Oh well.. I guess the W3C isn't likely to be interested in this, having
already hit the sweet spot, so I'll just cook up something on my own.
(I haven't had time for the project in the past few months, so that
isn't a promise.)

-------------
Simon St.Laurent - SSL is my TLA
http://simonstl.com may be my URI
http://monasticxml.org may be my ascetic URI
urn:oid:1.3.6.1.4.1.6320 is another possibility altogether
Received on Wednesday, 13 November 2002 10:25:14 GMT

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