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Re: Is it so hard to generate compliant software ?

From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 13:10:56 +0200
Message-ID: <8637890796.20020624131056@w3.org>
To: www-svg@w3.org, "Gabriel Preda" <gabriel_p@rol.ro>
CC: www-math@w3.org

On Monday, June 24, 2002, 6:14:39 AM, Gabriel wrote:


GP>     I'm currently working on a site about and with Math... having in my mind
GP> that I must make it 2005 compatible :))... I considered a good approach
GP> MathML for mathematical expressions and SVG for drawings related to
GP> mathematics... I want to be compliant with W3C REC as much as I can...
GP> BUT... I'm facing some problems...
GP>     The general question is:
GP>         Is it so hard to generate compliant software ?

It does take a certain amount of effort, and also the legacy browsers
are locked into bugwards compatibility whch makes it hard for them to
do anything new. But things are improving.

GP> Step by step:
GP>     _SVG_: SVG can't be directly put in HTML...
Correct, SVG is written in XML and HTL is written in SGML (in theory)
and tag soup (in practice). However, its easily possible to mix XHTML
and SVG and MathML. See
http://www.w3.org/TR/XHTMLplusMathMLplusSVG/

Or did you mean, that the browser you are using does not allow it? In
which case, please give them feedback. The more users request a
feature, the higher it tends to be in the development strategy.


GP>  let's say that time will
GP> deal with this... but I wonder... why ADOBE made not one... not two... but 3
GP> available MIME-types for SVG files...??? (image/svg, image/svg-xml,
GP> image/svg+xml)... when SVG-REC only talks about the last one...

Because Adobe did not start inplementing atthe final Rec, but much
earlier (around the second working draft, IIRC) and early on, the mime
type given in the spec was image/svg. This was changed (twice) to fit
in with new IETF directives about mime types for xml documents. Adobe
thus supports three mime types, but there is no guarantee the older
two will be supported in the future.

GP> Another
GP> thing is that <OBJECT> sometime fails... it should be as simple as
GP>     <OBJECT type="image/svg+xml" width=".." height=".."
GP> data="some_file.svg"></OBJECT>... but that is not working...

A better description of 'not working' would help, here

GP>  thus we are
GP> forced to use the <EMBED> tag witch is not in any REC !!!

Correct, though it can be added to an XHTML document easily enough.

GP>     _MathML_: ... here are tons to discuss... same thing... MIME-type...
GP> techexplorer recognizes "text/mathml" which has been deprecated by MathML2.0
GP> in favor of "application/mathml+xml" (which, IMHO, is more appropriate)...
GP> is it so hard to change some code lines to switch to another MIME-type ?

If the code was released before the change then it is hard ;-) if its
released after the change the yes, it certainly should support the new
type.

GP> But that's not all with techexplorer... following the instructions
GP> on the site (Putting mathematics on the Web with MathML)... I get
GP> nothing...

Pointer to those instructions?

GP> I believe that Adobe as well as IBM are in W3C...


yes

GP> so I would not expect compliant software from other companies
GP> since companies in W3C generate NotThatCompliant software...

it is vastly more compliant than the legacy HTML browsers that you are
probably trying to use it with.

GP> Now to my MathML problem !!

GP> <?xml version="1.0"?>
GP> <?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="mathml.xsl"?>
GP> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
GP> [......HTML 4.01 strict DTD....]

Uh, HTML 4.01 is SGML, not XML and has no namespace declarations. I
suspect you mean the XHTML 1.1 Strict DTD?

GP> <math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML">
GP>  <maction actiontype="tooltip">
GP>  <mtable frame="solid">
GP>    <mtr> <mtd> <mi>p</mi> </mtd>
GP>      <mtd><apply><not/><ci>p</ci></apply></mtd></mtr>
GP>    <mtr> <mtd><mn>1</mn></mtd>
GP>      <mtd><mn>0</mn></mtd></mtr>
GP>    <mtr> <mtd><n>0</mn></mtd>
GP>     <mtd><mn>1</mn></td></mtr></mtable>
GP>  <mtext linebreak="badbreak">Table valorilor de adevar pentru
GP> negatie.</mtext></maction>
GP> </math>
GP> [......HTML 4.01 strict DTD....]
GP> [......MathML....]
GP> [......HTML 4.01 strict DTD....]
GP> [......MathML....]
GP> ... and so on...
GP>     Where is the flaw ? instead of Math expression I get "p p 1 0 0 1"

Without a clearer description (ideally, a URL to the full example) its
hard to diagnose further. I assume that the mathml.xsl stylesheet
exists in that directory? What does it do?



-- 
 Chris                            mailto:chris@w3.org
Received on Monday, 24 June 2002 07:11:34 GMT

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