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Re: Towards a better testsuite

From: Gérard Talbot <www-style@gtalbot.org>
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2016 20:13:11 -0400
To: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Cc: W3C www-style mailing list <www-style@w3.org>
Message-ID: <65b9dc53e85a4a18ee24a4409d6ea684@gtalbot.org>
Le 2016-04-09 08:58, ishida@w3.org a écrit :
> On 04/04/2016 22:19, fantasai wrote:
>>> So I'm in favor of as little meta-data as possible, but not of
>>> no meta data at all. As a consumer of tests, the assertion and
>>> the link to the related specs are very important.
>> 
>> I agree with Florian's comments overall, and just wanted to point
>> out that, as a test reviewer, the spec links and assertion are
>> pretty critical to figuring out one of the main three failure modes
>> of a test.
>> 
>> They are
>>    1. Does the test pass when it's supposed to pass?
>>    2. Does the test fail when it's supposed to fail?
>>    3. Does the test actually test the condition the test writer is
>>       trying to check?
> 
> 
> Another big vote of support for the idea that *some* metadata is
> important. At the very least, some statement of *precisely* what the
> test writer was expecting to test is essential for people who want to
> work with the test afterwards, or check for coverage, etc.
> 
> I can't count the number of times that it has taken me a good while
> poring over the code to figure out whether the test i was looking at
> fits what i was looking for, or why it failed.
> 
> Sometimes, i discover that the tester only had a vague idea of what
> they were testing. If they had had an assertion to work to (a) i'd
> have understood that much sooner, and (b) they might have made a
> better focused test.

Richard,

I agree with you and I know that at least a few others like yourself 
share your experience and agree with your requests.

> If you want to improve the quality of tests, i think you need to make
> it easier for (a much smaller number of) people to work with and
> evaluate the tests being submitted, rather than to increase the number
> of tests while making it harder to review them.
> 
> What i would really like to see, though, being a person who tends to
> create a significant number of tests at a time but has almost no time
> to dedicate to that activity, is less insistence on minor formatting
> requirements - and especially slavish obedience to the automated
> checkers.  I recently had to rework a bunch of tests and resubmit the
> PR because of things like spaces at the end of a line *inside a
> comment*.

Which HTML editor are you using to create your tests? I ask because a 
growing majority of HTML editors now have a "Suppress empty blank spaces 
at end of line when saving" user-preference setting.

This is the case for BlueFish 2.2.x, KATE 3.x and Geany 1.23.1 and 
presumably for others as well.

Some (not all) like KATE have an end-of-line-to-UNIX setting when 
saving.

> I did it, but seriously considered just abandoning the
> effort, since it meant using up the small amount of time i try to
> reserve for family life. I couldn't help wondering why i had to do
> busy work that didn't affect the test.  It ok to have automated tools
> looking for errors, but if its not clear that those errors are really
> going to break the test, lets not just reject the tests.
> 
> I actually develop tests for use elsewhere, but in a way that makes it
> possible to reuse them for webplatform or css repos.  However, i often
> think that there is little allowance made for people might want to
> create such efficiencies. Sometimes the rules about metadata seem too
> myopic, and sometimes people make sweeping changes to unimportant
> aspects of large numbers of files, which means that it's no longer
> possible to quickly ascertain which files have had been change in
> unimportant ways and which files have had substantive changes made,
> changes that i need to reintegrate into my original set of tests.
> 
> By the way, while i'm making suggestions, one other thing i'd like to
> change is the dumping of huge numbers of tests in a single high level
> directory without further structure.  For example, the CSS Writing
> Modes spec has around 1000 tests that are all in one directory.  It
> would be much easier to find specific tests and determine coverage,
> etc. if the tests were in a directory structure that more closely
> matched the structure of the document (at least to some degree).

The /source/

http://test.csswg.org/source/css-writing-modes-3/

does not have what you are requesting but the built test suite has it:

http://test.csswg.org/suites/css-writing-modes-3_dev/nightly-unstable/html/toc.htm


Gérard

> 
> 
> hope that helps,
> ri
Received on Sunday, 10 April 2016 00:13:44 UTC

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