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Re: 16px shipped default for all NOT true (was: Why not max/min-font...)

From: Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 00:33:17 -0400
Message-ID: <53B0E88D.70204@earthlink.net>
To: www-style@w3.org
On 2014-06-29 09:09 (GMT-0700) Tab Atkins Jr. composed:

> Felix Miata wrote:

>> On 2014-06-26 23:33 (GMT-0700) Bruno Racineux composed:

>>> The Normal/Medium size is always 16px by default for all browsers.

>> 1-It isn't and never has been[1] true.

> It is true

You and others keep saying so, but without proffering proof to contradict my 
proofs to the contrary.

#1 Always means always, not 97.9% or 99.7% of the time.

#2 If you're somehow trying to inject the CSS reference pixel into the 
discussion there needs to be some concurrent reconciliation between it and 
tools at the disposal of CSS users and others who recognize the variable 
disparity between the specification, and units used and measurable with web 
tools. Assessing the size of anything in reference pixels requires tools not 
at ready disposal to most people who might even in theory realize any benefit 
from their use.

#3 Not true for IE6 (nominal 12pt default dependent on display density, real 
or assumed, for px size):

http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/ie6-sans120.png (20px @120DPI)
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/ie6-sans120b.png "
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/ie6-sans144.png (24px @144DPI)
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/ie6-sans144b.png "

#4 Is not and (AFAICT) never has been true with KHTML (nominal 12pt default 
dependent on display density, real or assumed, for px size):

http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/konq3-sans120.png (20px @120DPI)
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/konq3-sans144.png "
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/konq4-sans120.png (24px @144DPI)
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/W3/konq4-sans144.png "

And before you remind me how small a presence KHTML has on the web, I'll 
remind you:

1-KHTML is that from whence came WebKit, and through WebKit, Blink, and is 
neither dead nor useless, getting backported selected changes from the forking.

2-KHTML is the only current capability to display as intended web pages 
created under CSS2 and prior, when absolute units could correspond to their 
namesakes' physical units precisely, without using a non-current browser, the 
same dimensional accuracy now as they could with browsers available at the 
time of their creation. For some pages, and some users, this capability, now 
expunged from CSS specifications, is crucial.

(Such pages can be modestly restyled to continue working exactly as in the 
past with KHTML, and also with the Geckos, but not with any browser running 
on current or recent Blink, Trident or WebKit.)

#5 Camino's shipped default before its demise IIRC was 14px, same as Epiphany 
and some other now defunct Mozilla/Gecko browsers, and possibly same as some 
same that are recent or current. SeaMonkey is not the only Mozilla/Gecko 
besides Firefox. http://geckoisgecko.org/

> but you shouldn't make any strong assumptions off of it

Absolutely!

> every browser makes it fairly easy for users to change their default

Debateable. The fact that pages like 
https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/96810?hl=en&ref_topic=3434353 and 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/guides/change_fonts/browser/win/firefox3/ 
exist to help users figure it out, coupled with the sub-optimal text size and 
contrast obstacles that it and similar pages present to users, plus the 
common confusion between defaults and zoom, makes me think quite the 
contrary. Also, degree of difficulty ignores the issues that: a-typical 
author styling makes changing it is almost pointless, and b-some browsers 
limit delta from shipped to + or - 50% nominal. All in all it can confuse all 
but extremely astute and knowledgable users.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
Received on Monday, 30 June 2014 04:33:41 UTC

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