W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > September 2011

[CSSWG] Minutes and Resolutions 2011-09-14

From: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:11:11 -0700
Message-ID: <4E71429F.3000209@inkedblade.net>
To: "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
Summary:
   - Discussed margin collapsing behavior of column-spanning elements;
     proposal A is to wrap an anonymous BFC around consecutive spanning
     elements with the same 'column-span' value so that the margins among
     them (e.g. between <h1> and <h2>) can collapse. Alternative is no
     collapsing.
   - Administrative topics: collecting availability data for Paris F2F,
     Shepherd feedback, blog transition to WordPress, spec publishing
     checklist, Anton Prowse has now joined CSSWG as Invited Expert

====== Full minutes below ======

Present:
   César Acebal
   Bert Bos
   Arron Eicholz
   Elika Etemad
   Simon Fraser
   Daniel Glazman
   Koji Ishii
   Brad Kemper
   Hĺkon Wium Lie
   Alex Mogilevsky
   Edward O'Connor
   Florian Rivoal
   David Singer
   Alan Stearns
   Daniel Weck
   Steve Zilles
   <Zakim> +Andrew_Kirkpatrick

<RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/14-css-irc

Scribe: arronei

Paris F2F
---------

   <glazou> http://www.doodle.com/7r9kee8rt5sqwqfv#table
   glazou: f2f meeting in paris
   glazou: please fill in the doodle
   glazou: need a good head count
   glazou: the best date for the f2f in Paris is between the 6th and 8th of Feb
   <dsinger> Week of 23rd is out I assume?
   <glazou> yes
   <dsinger> Bother. 3gpp and mpeg the two doodle weeks

column-span and margin collapsing
---------------------------------

   howcome: issue is how margin collapsing works on spanner
   howcome: current spec in CR does not say anything about that
   howcome: I suggest to add language for that
   howcome: it should happen if two consecutive spanning elements but not with
            other elements
   howcome: spanning lets are usually wider
   howcome: collapsing should be messy
   howcome: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Aug/0457.html
   fantasai: seems ok
   howcome: two h elements, they should collapse
   alexmog: spanning elements are kind of like floats
   alexmog: floats don't collapse margins
   florian: I see it differently
   florian: you intend things to collapse when there is only 1 column
   florian: they should collapse then
   howcome: yep, least surprise
   howcome: but what will happen column-span integer value
   alexmog: we are trying to optimize for cases that are rare
   alexmog: use cases that don't really exist
   alexmog: make sure elements don't have margins ?
   howcome: what if you column span all and margin 10em, does not look like
            it multicolor at all ; no collapsing then?
   howcome: very natural to have collapsing happen then
   howcome: not really insisting on this edge case
   <Bert> (Typical case in favor of collapsing: <div><h1><h2.subtitle><p>...</div>
           with 'div {columns: 20em} h1, h2 {span: all}')
   fantasai: I agree with howcome that would make more sense to have them collapse
   fantasia: two things make sense to me, implementation-wise
   fantasai: one is for each column-spanning element to be a formatting context
             root individually, and not collapse its margins with anything.
   fantasai: the other is to take all consecutive elements that have same column
             span value and wrap them in anonymous formatting context root, such
             that sibling spanning elements' margins collapse
   fantasai: and a spanning element's children would collapse margin with
             column spanning parent
   howcome: reasonable but what if there's a column-span: all followed by a
             column-span: 2, and the all winds up spanning two columns as well?
   fantasai: they don't collapse
   fantasai: it would be inconsistent for them to not collapse when the window
             is wide and collapse only when it's narrowed.
   fantasai: also, this way whether or not they collapse is calculated only from
             style data; no need to do layout
   howcome: fine solution to the problem
   howcome: but I would like to have alexmog with me on that
   howcome: msft has not done it that way
   alexmog: I did not have a chance to think about it before
   howcome: if we can avoid margin collapsing it would be nice here
   howcome: no decision yet
   howcome: need a week to review it?
   alexmog: need to get in touch with implementors
   howcome: fine
   glazou: add to next week's agenda?
   stevez: technical question: where there is only 1 column, do spaning elements'
           margin collapse with non spanning ones?
   fantasai: no, same reasons as above
   fantasai: default value of column-span?
   Bert: none
   howcome: yeah
   howcome: used to be 1 but changed
   fantasai: probably because of the margin collapsing issue
   <Bert> (I wonder if that means that we can replace 'overflow: auto' with
           'column-span: all' now in order to contain child floats in the
           element's height...)

Administrative
--------------

   glazou: Shepherd, please send feedback
   glazou: checklist for WD publications
   glazou: comments?
   http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/publish
   Bert: comment about the blog
   Bert: some people don't have a blog account
   Bert: new blog system next week, all accounts will be renewed
   Bert: if you don't have an account now, you'll have one next week
   Bert: if you have no account and have something to blog about, please
          wait until next week and the new system
   Bert: termporary state...
   fantasai: Anton as IE?
   glazou: Anton joined a few days ago as IE
Received on Thursday, 15 September 2011 00:11:43 GMT

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