W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > May 2011

Re: CSS Spec Annotations - Design Feedback Wanted

From: Gérard Talbot <www-style@gtalbot.org>
Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 17:02:02 -0700
Message-ID: <95b15b4e4b432f5e74befd00a10759a4.squirrel@cp3.shieldhost.com>
To: "Linss, Peter" <peter.linss@hp.com>
Cc: "timeless" <timeless@gmail.com>, "www-style@w3c.org" <www-style@w3c.org>

Le Dim 22 mai 2011 14:59, Linss, Peter a écrit :
> On May 22, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Gérard Talbot wrote:
>> Le Sam 21 mai 2011 23:29, timeless a écrit :
>>> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Peter Linss <peter.linss@hp.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> or perhaps an "only run untested mode",
>>> definitely
>> I agree with and support this "only run untested mode" proposal.
> Ok, I'll add it to my todo list.
>>>> if I add that mode I'll have the untested link activate it. I'm open
>>>> to
>>>> suggestions for improvements in the harness UI as well.
>>> my other problem is testing things which have a reference rendering...
>>> e.g.
>>> http://test.csswg.org/harness/testcase?s=CSS21_DEV&f=html4&g=144&r=15&o=1
>> When I follow this link, I end up at
>> http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/html4/min-height-applies-to-002.htm
> A side effect of the intelligent test sequencing is that when sharing (or
> revisiting) harness URLs that are index based (the 'r' value in the query
> string above), you get whatever test happens to be at that index for the
> engine you're using. You'll get a different test depending on your engine
> and the current result data, so we're likely not looking at the same test.
> The index based URLs are a carry-over from old code (and yes, I know, bad
> design, violates URL integrity, etc). I'm working on a fix that uses the
> test names in the URL instead of the index. This way the URLs will always
> get you to the same test, it's just the *next* test that will be different
> based on engines and results... (this one's been bugging me for a while,
> I'm also looking at using mod_rewrite to remove the query entirely.) I was
> afraid that re-computing test indices would be a performance hit, but it
> doesn't seem too bad (actually lets me speed up other code to compensate).
>>> there are links to the reference, but they cause my browser to lose
>>> its scroll position, so i can't view the top 1/3 of a test, click the
>>> reference, check for flash, view the top 1/3, press <space> (shows
>>> 2/3), click the test part, press space (shows 2/3), click the
>>> reference (shows 2/3), check for flash. possibilities:
>>> * being able to view things side by side
>>> * abusing transparency to have a view w/
>>> -- test above reference
>>> -- reference above test
>> I understand this scroll position issue wrt reftests and agree that it
>> is
>> annoying: it makes the tester click (the scrollbar thumb) and/or scroll
>> more.
> Understood. In general, tests that require scrolling are in violation of
> our guidelines [1], so this isn't a problem that's high on my list. The
> best solution that comes to my mind is using javascript in the harness to
> swap the tests and references rather than a reload, but a design criteria
> so far has been to not rely on script in the client. Another fix could be
> to capture the scroll position and send it to the other page.

scrollTop property during a scroll event on a element like a div is
retrievable in almost all browsers:

I have not tried on a <object> acting as an iframe though.

> [1] http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/guidelines.html#the-long

The height of the <object> varies from one browser to another: that too
can influence the amount of scrolling and the possibility of having to
scroll to reach the [PASS][FAIL][Can not say][Skipped] buttons at the

In Konqueror 4.6.3, the height of the <object data='...' type='text/html'>
is considerably taller than the height of the same <object data='...'
type='text/html'> in Firefox 4.0.1

.test {
  height: 70%;
  width: 100%;
  text-align: center;
  display: table-row;
.test p {
  height: inherit;
  display: table-cell;
object {
  height: 98%;

a) "height: inherit" on a percentage value in nested cases may also be
buggy in some browsers. And it is redefined in
<link href='test_gecko.css' type='text/css' rel='stylesheet'>
<link href='test_webkit.css' type='text/css' rel='stylesheet'>
from 70% to 90%

Add to this:
CSS 2.1 does not define how the height of table cells and table rows is
calculated when their height is specified using percentage values.

There are a bunch redeclarations in the 3 stylesheets and sometimes more
than once. They can be easily identified in some browsers: in webkit-based
browsers, the declaration are striken and can be toggled by
checking/unchecking a checkbox. Sometimes, they are needed though... but,
after a quick look, sometimes not needed.

is defined for Opera browsers
<link href='test_presto.css' type='text/css' rel='stylesheet'>
but is 404 not found.

Since <h2 class="title"> has clear: both (btw, just clear: left; would
suffice to clear the img), then <h3 class="testname"> does not need to be
cleared with clear: both.


I want you to know that overall I am extremely happy with the CSS 2.1 test
suite as it is right now. Do not perceive my comments as a criticism.

I think overall, the nr 1 problem with the test suite is the testcases
themselves and the web authors' perspective[1]: there is now just too many
issues right now with many testcases.

I am for adding new testcases, better testcases to make the testsuite more
complete, comprehensive.

[1]: it would take me some time to elaborare on this... which I do not
have right now.

best regards, Gérard
CSS 2.1 Test suite RC6, March 23rd 2011

Contributions to CSS 2.1 test suite

Web authors' contributions to CSS 2.1 test suite
Received on Monday, 23 May 2011 00:02:35 UTC

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