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[CSSWG] Minutes and Resolutions 2011-05-18

From: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 11:22:27 -0700
Message-ID: <4DD55FE3.6000703@inkedblade.net>
To: "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
Summary:
   - Discussed Tokyo F2F planning
   - Discussed status of Multi-col test suite, CSS2.1, Namespaces, Regions,
     and proposal to define intrinsic widths of multi-column elements.
   - RESOLVED: Switch CSS test suites to Mercurial, providing there is adequate
               easy-to-follow documentation.

====== Full minutes below ======

Present:
   Arron Eicholz
   Elika Etemad
   Simon Fraser
   Daniel Glazman
   Vincent Hardy
   Koji Ishii
   John Jansen
   Brad Kemper
   Håkon Wium Lie
   Peter Linss
   Edward O'Connor
   Alan Stearns

Regrets:
   Tab Atkins
   David Baron
   Bert Bos
   David Singer

<RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-css-irc
Scribe: vhardy

Administrative
--------------

   glazou: The listserv at W3C has issues. I sent the agenda yesterday evening.
           It can take a ong time to see an email in your inbox.
   glazou: this is for W3C mailing lists in general, not just the CSS lists.
   arno: some of the email just seem to never make it to my inbox.
   glazou: this happened to me too.
   arno: yes, I do not see other people's email.
   glazou: other agenda items?
   vhardy: will we have a meeting next week?
   glazou: not sure, we have a chairing problem.
   fantasai: maybe Bert or szilles can chair?
   glazou; yes, I'll try to find a replacement.

Tokyo F2F
---------

   <glazou> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32061/css-ftf-2011-06
   glazou: please respond to the questionaire about the next F2F.
   <plinss> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/japan-2011
   glazou: please also fill out the information about your flight and
           arrival/departure info.
   glazou: agenda items for Kyoto meeting. For now, we have CSS
           Regions/Exclusions, etc... (see above link).
   glazou: are there other items?

Multi-col Test Suite
--------------------

   Hakon: could we discuss the multi-col test suite?
   hakon: the test suite is a start.
   glazou: how complete is it?
   hakon: it is a bit short on functionality.
   hakon: we need more test cases for edge cases.
   hakon: we would like to reach about 200 tests.
   hakon: we currently have about 20.
   hakon: I think Microsoft has between 50 and 100 tests.
   johnjan: It is Microsoft's intention to contribute the tests.
   glazou: other agenda items?
   <johnjan> we just want to make sure we're not going to submit a bunch
             of duplicates to the opera tests

Tokyo F2F (cont.)
-----------------

   glazou: anything else about Kyoto?
   plinss: I'll be there a few days in advance.
   vhardy: the SVG WG will not meet in Kyoto.
   glazou: yes, we had a message from them.
   glazou: Cameron McCormak sent a message on May 12th. The SVG WG will
           reschedule the meeting likely late July in the US.

CSS2.1
------

   glazou: next agenda item. CSS 2.1 review period ended yesterday.
   glazou: 23 answers. 21 are ok-go ahead. 2 are requesting changes.
   glazou: some of the changes sent by Mohamed are related to references.
   glazou: David from Mozilla had a comment about issue 225. Nokia mentioned
           it too. Saying we could add it to the document since it is resolved.
   glazou: if we have add the resolution to the document, it could delay
           things. I would propose to move as fast as possible.
   fantasai: Bert said the director could agree to make that change.
   glazou: I am worried about a technical change that is not just editorial.
   fantasai: I think the Director should make that decision.
   fantasai: nobody objects to the change.
   glazou: the Director could also be worried that not everybody reviewed
           the issue 225 resolution.
   fantasai: That should be the director's call.
   glazou: our responsibility as chairs is to decide on what we should
           recommend for the director.
   glazou: unfortunately, Bert is not on the call.
   fantasai: I don't think we should recommend against the change
   glazou: If we can make some of the changes Mohamed recommended.

   glazou: please remind your AC rep. about PR release about 2.1

<glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/agenda
glazou: let's move to other agenda items.

Publishing Regions
------------------

   vhardy: what do I need to do to prepare for WD publication, other than
           get a WG resolution. Formatting, etc?
   fantasai: talk to me and Bert off-line.
   vhardy: ok, will do.

   glazou: did you incorporate comments in the draft.
   vhardy: I am in the process to do that.
   glazou: we cannot make a decision to publish to WD because we do not
           have enough attendance in that call.
   glazou: I propose we wait until next week if we have a call or decide
           during the F2F.

Namespaces
----------

   glazou: next item, we can talk about namespaces.
   glazou: I had an AI to ping the i18n WG.
   kojiishi: Actually, this was just discussed in the i18n meeting earlier
             today.
   kojiishi: we should have an answer by next week.
   glazou: I hope it will not imply a lot of changes. If it does not, we
           can publish.
   glazou: anything else on that topic?

Intrinsic Widths of Multi-col Elements
--------------------------------------

   glazou: anything else we should discuss today?
   fantasai: I have a question about what to do about the intric width
             of multi-col elements.
   hakon: I do not think this is a multi-col specific issue.
   hakon: I think this is an issue that we need to address, just not
          as a multi-col issue.
   glazou: do you mean that the algorithm to compute the width of columns
           is orthogonal to the width of the elements themselves.
   fantasai: where should I address this?
   fantasai: we need to define the shrink wrap algorithm for table and
             other use cases.
   fantasai: I would like if this issue should be left undefined or if
             we should add it to the appendix of writing modes.
   hakon: yes, I think you should do.
   fantasai: multi-col has special considerations, such as the
             max-content-width that is different for multi-col elements.
   hakon: I do not think we should single out the multi-col elements.
   hakon: we have simplified the multi-column specification.
   fantasai: I would like to address use cases with this
   fantasai: we have 3 options:
   <fantasai> a) leave shrinkwrap undefined, as currently in css3-multicol
   <fantasai> b) define shrinkwrap to ignore multi-col properties,
                 calculate as if columns weren't there
   <fantasai> c) define shrinkwrap with consideration of multicol properties
   hakon: there is already interoperable implementations of shrinkwrap
          in multi-col. It is not documented, but it is interoperably
          implemented -- you use the same width as you would if it's not
          multicol
   hakon: if we document it, it should document current implementation.
   fantasai: The current spec doesn't consider shrinkwrap an important
             situation, so it's left undefined. But it's important in
             mixed writing modes.
   fantasai: and other horizontal-only use cases we had not though of yet.
   glazou: so we are not ready yet to standardize that?
   fantasai: no, it is just that shrinkwrapping multi-col elements is that
             it is more important than we thought.
   glazou: we have a pretty stable multi-col spec. that we can move along
           the spec. track.
   glazou: the shrinkwrap algorithm needs to be extended separately, and
           implementors will have to do their work.
   hakon: yes, I agree.
   hakon: if there are new use cases, we could address them in a later spec.
   glazou: yes, if we wait to address all use cases, we will drag the effort.
   fantasai: I am not asking to modify the multi-col spec.
   hakon: but you are asking to specifiy multi-col functionality in a
          different spec.
   glazou: do we have a proposal?
   fantasai: yes.
   glazou: we need the whole group to be present for this discussion.
   glazou: we cannot resolve it today. We can discuss it next week or during
           the F2F.
   glazou: changing something in the feature related to the relation between
           two specification is something we can still discuss.
   glazou: in the meantime, I propose we make progress on the multi-col spec.
           and make progress on the test suite, move it along as it is today.
           We have implementations, use cases on the web.
   fantasai: ok with me.
   hakon: ok with me.
   glazou: no change in the multi-col spec. for now. We will discuss shrinkwrap
           issues related to multi-col with hakon present.

Mercurial
---------

   plinss: I proposed change to mercurial. Did not hear any objection.
           Planning to make the change today.
   fantasai: do we have documentation on the mercurial client.
   arronei: I have concerned about the documentation as well. We would need
            a place with documentation.
   fantasai: we would need instructions for common functionality.
   plinss: I can put this together.
   fantasai: documenting merge process would be great.
   (discussion about CVS/SVN/Mercurial)
   glazou: any objection to move to mercurial?
   fantasai: none if we have instructions.
   <fantasai> very simple, clear, easy-to-follow instructions
   <fantasai> not "here's a link to the manual" :)
   (no objection)
   RESOLUTION: moving test suite to mercurial.
Received on Thursday, 19 May 2011 18:22:58 GMT

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