W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > June 2011

Re: [css3-lists] Alignment of list markers

From: Brad Kemper <brad.kemper@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 15:24:33 -0700
Cc: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
Message-Id: <0E3D61BD-0542-45DB-A187-683B588B2DB8@gmail.com>
To: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>
On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:42 AM, "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com> wrote:

>> You are saying that marker placement is the result of a new value of 'position' that causes it to ignore all other ways of selecting it (in the case of an explicit 'position:marker'), and only be styled by the new pseudo-class only, meanwhile causing it to change from 'display: inline' into 'display: inline-block'. That sounds pretty magical to me already, and we have to still nail down how the magic works. And what happens if I have '::marker { display:block; position:static; }'? I still haven't seen an answer to that one. Does it jump back into an inside position? Does it keep the 'display' value from ::marker, or does it now ignore ::marker and revert to only looking at normal (non-pseudo) selection rules?
> 
> Hmm, it looks like there was some major miscommunication here.  Also,
> the spec is in a somewhat inconsistent state at the moment, so you
> can't look to it for guidance until I correct it (which I'll do
> today).

I would say lack of clarity in communication, not miscommunication. You seem to have a different mental model than I do, which has not been clear to me (in parts) from the spec or your subsequent emails, and I've been trying to understand the parts that I find confusing, while making suggestions for ways to avoid confusion via alteration to the way it works. 

> There are two values for list-style-position: 'inside' and 'outside'.
> Their primary effect is changing where the ::marker is placed in the
> element-tree.

I'm with you so far. 

> 'outside' also tweaks the default value

Do you mean computed value?

> of a few
> properties on ::marker,
> including making it "position:marker".

OK. That bit of magic wasn't clear to me before. I had thought "position:marker" was just to move arbitrary elements into marker position. 

> "position:marker" is just a new positioning scheme based on how
> markers are typically positioned.
> 
> You can also use "position:marker" on arbitrary elements, which does
> the expected thing of just making the element positioned.
> 
> My point about avoiding magical behavior is that, given the concept of
> "position:marker" (which I like), ::marker should act almost exactly
> like an extra ::before

I agree ::marker should be similar to an extra ::before in most ways. 

> that list-items happen to possess (modulo the
> few places where 'outside' tweaks default property values).  This
> seems elegant and minimally invasive, which hopefully means that it
> should be easy to understand too.

OK so at least I understand you better now. However, "new positioning scheme based on how markers are typically positioned" doesn't sound significantly less magical than "outside marker content has a containment block that is the box where markers are typically positioned".
Received on Saturday, 11 June 2011 22:25:12 GMT

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