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Re: [css3-flexbox] getting multiline flexbox back into the spec

From: Alan Gresley <alan@css-class.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 00:30:15 +1000
Message-ID: <4DEE35F7.4040909@css-class.com>
To: "Eric A. Meyer" <eric@meyerweb.com>
CC: www-style@w3.org
On 7/06/2011 11:04 PM, Eric A. Meyer wrote:
> At 13:56 +1000 6/7/11, Alan Gresley wrote:
>
>> On 7/06/2011 5:36 AM, Eric A. Meyer wrote:
>>> At 19:22 +0000 6/6/11, Alex Mogilevsky wrote:
>>>
>>>> Specifying direction of flexbox has nothing to do with specifying
>>>> direction of text flow within these boxes, therefore text direction
>>>> properties should not be used for that purpose. Flexbox should have
>>>> its own way to specify its layout direction.
>>>
>>> I agree with this 110%.
>>
>> Eric, do you want another DOCTYPE switch scenario to surface in the
>> next decade due to incorrect concept of direction?
>
> You lost me there. I don't see how having layout order be potentially
> independent of writing direction triggers a switch scenario.


That's the thing, you said layout order where Alex is saying layout 
direction. The use of the word 'direction' complicates things.

> Has
> absolute positioning raised that possibility and I missed it?


Are you talking about CSS3 positioning? Currently it's not RTL or 
vertical writing mode friendly.


> Will grid
> layout similarly do so? Will regions?


Not sure how to answer this since I am now lost. I do know that Grid 
layout is not CJK dual layout friendly since an element that has columns 
establishes a BFC.


>> Base direction is the master of direction. Flexbox should not have it
>> own concept to specify its layout direction.
>
> Why not? As an example, 'box-direction: reverse' (to draw an example
> from the 2009 spec) defines a layout direction different than the
> standard layout direction. I've used it and it doesn't threaten the
> writing direction. It just reverses the layout of the boxes from what
> would be the default.


I OK with that. My main concern is this. Does RTL (via the attribute 
dir="rtl") change the ordering of the reverse layout? Does everything 
work in reserve in RTL?


> Similarly, 'box-ordinal-group' lets you throw boxes hither and thither
> within the overall flexbox, completely independent of writing or other
> layout direction, and I regard that as a good. It's useful for, say,
> placing a "sticky" post at the top of a forum while preserving
> chronological ordering in the source, or for switching around column order.


Agreed. I like the idea of sticky parts.


> I would find it deeply odd to have to use a writing-direction property
> to define layout order. That would be like having to use 'text-align' to
> center element boxes.


Agreed. I just wondering when a spec will solve the problem which I 
initially mentioned on this list [1] in 2010 and where Koji said that 
the multi-column could solve this. I can't test because IE10 has odd 
behavior when combing vertical mode and multi-column (blocks jump around 
crazy, nor knowing if the should be vertical or horizontal). I just 
wondering if flexbox could solve it.


[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Oct/0658.html


-- 
Alan Gresley
http://css-3d.org/
http://css-class.com/
Received on Tuesday, 7 June 2011 14:30:46 GMT

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