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Re: "CSS Standard Boasts Unprecedented Interoperability": a different - much more nuanced - opinion

From: Gérard Talbot <www-style@gtalbot.org>
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 13:04:36 -0700
Message-ID: <5ddcc79f74fd4a92b662e00dcf650648.squirrel@cp3.shieldhost.com>
To: "Daniel Glazman" <daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com>
Cc: "W3C www-style mailing list" <www-style@w3.org>, "Bert Bos" <bert@w3.org>, "Ian Jacobs" <ij@w3.org>

Le Mer 8 juin 2011 6:30, Daniel Glazman a écrit :
> Le 07/06/11 23:49, "Gérard Talbot" a écrit :

>> The fact that 9000 CSS tests have been submitted and that the fact the
>> CSS
>> 2.1 spec is official do not, by itself, make CSS coding entirely
>> reliable,
>> perfectly predictable in all browsers.
> And we never said CSS is entirely reliable or perfect. You perfectly
> know the Test Suite is here to test the features in a spec written by
> humans. To the best of our knowledge, the CSS 2.1 Test Suite tests
> all features in the spec.

Daniel, please visit this page:

CSS 2.1 test suite: Known issues

and I assure you that such page is not completely updated right now.

[Addendum: latest update: in my opinion, vertical-align-117 and
vertical-align-118 are not really and not accurately testing what those
testcases were originally aiming at testing. So, those 2 testcases should
be upgraded, improved.]

> It is just impossible to test *all*
> interactions between *all* properties and *all* values in *all*
> scenarios. The errata mode is here to cover the issues raised after REC
> release.
> </Daniel>
> --
> W3C CSS WG, Co-chair

If you are unaware of a failure or unaware about a bad testcase or unaware
about some interaction between a property and a value and a webpage
scenario, then there is little you can do. I am not asking anyone to be

What about when a failure, a bad testcase or a precise interation or
scenario is known, has been identified publicly, has been documented, has
been explained, in some cases, has been discussed, etc? This is what I was
talking about and why I mentioned


2 examples.

On october 18th 2010, David Baron wrote


saying that 12 testcases are invalid. Today, those same testcases (RC6 and
in nightly-unstable) still have not been corrected accordingly.

On 7 Nov 2010, I explained in
that user agents can render a missing icon if the targeted image is not
fetchable. Therefore, either the testcase
needed to be upgraded or corrected to reflect such reality in the spec and
in some browsers. Today, that testcase still has not been corrected

I mentioned 50 invalid testcases: they all have been identified,
explained. Fair and square.

I mentioned 200 testcases requiring some code tuning, tweaking,
corrections, improvements: they all have been identified. Sometimes as
soon as fall 2010.


Gérard Talbot
CSS 2.1 Test suite RC6, March 23rd 2011

Contributions to CSS 2.1 test suite

Web authors' contributions to CSS 2.1 test suite
Received on Monday, 4 July 2011 20:05:07 UTC

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