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Re: [css3-speech] ISSUE-153 speak: none; usage incompatible with other values of speak

From: Daniel Weck <daniel.weck@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 14:54:04 +0000
Message-Id: <C2475BB0-DA78-4343-A3C4-18F1D96685A2@gmail.com>
To: www-style@w3.org, Charles Belov <Charles.Belov@sfmta.com>, fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Hi Charles,
personally I see no valid use-case for wanting to "hide" text in the  
aural dimension, whilst making it visible on the graphical canvas.  
More importantly, I'm pretty sure that this behavior violates  
accessibility good practices.

After having looked at several authoring scenarios, I remain convinced  
that "speak:none" should  be removed from the current draft, and that  
instead "visibility:hidden" should be used to control element  
"deactivation". I believe the role of the "speak" property should be  
limited to controlling the _style_ in which elements get spoken out.

Any other thoughts ?
Regards, Daniel

On 12 Jan 2011, at 21:43, Belov, Charles wrote:

> fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net wrote on Wednesday, January 12, 2011  
> 10:53
> AM
>> CSS-ISSUE-153
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/153
>>
>> The 'speak' property has two functions: one is to dual as the
>> speech equivalent of 'visibility', the other is to specify how
>> to speak the contents of an element.
>>
>> This creates unintentional problems with, e.g.
>>
>> acronym {
>>  speak: spell-out;
>> }
>>
>> p.hide {
>>  speak: none;
>> }
>>
>> <p>Thing to hide <acronym>WOAH</acronym> more stuff to hide</p>
>>
>> The WOAH is suddenly injected into the speech rendering due
>> to the acronym rule, even though that is probably not what's  
>> intended.
>> These functions should be separated into two properties, or
>> the 'none' value removed entirely.
>>
>
> I do find the wording for none odd:
>
> Suppresses aural rendering so that the element requires no time to
> render. Note, however, that descendants may override this value and  
> will
> be spoken. (To be sure to suppress rendering of an element and its
> descendants, use the 'display' property
>
> What if you only want to suppress the sound and not the display
> (although I'd want to see a use case that did not violate  
> accessibility
> standards)?
>
> In any case, I believe one could code:
>
> acronym {
>  speak: spell-out;
> }
>
> p.hide {
>  speak: none !important;
> }
>
> or perhaps
>
> acronym {
>  speak: spell-out;
> }
>
> p.hide,
> p.hide * {
>  speak: none;
> }
>
> Whether that is sufficient to alleviate concerns is another issue.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Charles Belov
> SFMTA Webmaster
>
>

Daniel Weck
daniel.weck@gmail.com
Received on Wednesday, 19 January 2011 14:58:24 GMT

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