W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > February 2011

Re: Printing and background colors/images

From: イアンフェッティ <ifette@google.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 09:27:56 -0800
Message-ID: <AANLkTikmBOrK3O+sOAYAZfX6Vct02VAmGCQC2PHEVnf5@mail.gmail.com>
To: Brad Kemper <brad.kemper@gmail.com>
Cc: Simon Fraser <smfr@me.com>, "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Brad Kemper <brad.kemper@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Feb 23, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ) wrote:
>
> In Webkit, it wouldn't need to. At least not for Safari on Mac, where 1)
>> There is already a print dialog that appears every time a person prints
>> (unlike IE and it's print icon), and 2) The "Print Backgrounds" checkbox is
>> clearly visible on that dialog (unlike IE, where it is even more thoroughly
>> hidden). So for Safari, if I had a non-none value for
>> '@warning-no-background', then that checkbox would perhaps even be
>> de-checked, and if the user re-checks it then the warning message appears
>> underneath the checkbox. In red, maybe. The spec would not mandate the exact
>> UI of how the warning was presented.
>>
>>
> This is soemwhat dubious. You have to click the triangle to get the options
> to show up, losing a large part of users there.
>
>
> Once open, it stays open forever, or until you close it, so I am used to
> always seeing it open. I imagine you are right though, that the number of
> people who have never clicked it is significant.
>
> Then, you have to know to choose "Safari" in the dropdown in the middle.
>
>
> I don't think so. I think it is always the default.
>


I believe "Layout" is the default, but I could be wrong. I would need to
image a fresh system -- I have one that is mostly fresh, but I can't
honestly remember.


>
> Then, you /still/ have to as a user understand what the heck it means to
> print backgrounds, and what exactly would be the difference. It's still
> quite buried and it's still IMO an unnecessary cognitive burden to place on
> the user.
>
>
> Well if the default is to uncheck it when the author included a message to
> indicate it is important, then those who can't understand can just accept
> the author's choice.
>

So, in this case, there's really two options:

1. Prompt the user with something modal-like, -or
2. Just do it (change the check box that the majority of users will never
see).

I don't think you're proposing #1, but if you are we probably disagree :) If
you're proposing #2, it's mostly the same as what I am proposing - "Just
print the stuff the author has said is important". The question then becomes
"How does the author indicate that something is important and should be
printed" and "How does the user override that if s/he disagrees?". #1 I
don't feel strongly about as I indicated earlier in the thread, and #2 I
feel even less strongly about given that I am not even sure we (Chrome)
would expose an option for such a small percentage of users. I would note
though that your solution doesn't give a good way for users to persistently
express "I don't want to print backgrounds, period," which is likely the
only group that would actually care. It might be better to have some sort of
tri-state "Default [none unless author specified], Always, Never,"
especially given that such options tend to be persisted across print jobs.


> In which case, there is no more cognitive burden than the other choices
> discussed, but there is an easy way to change it for anyone who finds it
> important to do so. I suspect that those who don't understand the checkbox
> would also be the ones that don't care (until something doesn't print that
> should), and would also be the ones to leave the disclosure triangle closed.
>
> P.S. what you said is only true for Safari on Mac. As far as I can tell
> they don't expose the option on windows.
>
>
> That's OK, since Safari only has minuscule market share on Windows. ;)
> I suppose the OS has a lot to do with the print dialog.
>
>
It does. To modify it on windows, it's a PITA -- you have to copy the bottom
of the PrintDlgEx template from the windows SDK, modify it, include it as a
resource in your project, provide a function to hook all the user
interactions to see if they are interacting with your additions to the
dialog... it's a pain, and involves scary winapi foo.
Received on Wednesday, 23 February 2011 17:28:26 GMT

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