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Re: [css3-speech] 'speakability' property name

From: Daniel Weck <daniel.weck@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 00:11:48 +0100
Message-Id: <595D3CBC-4A50-4C7C-A09E-CF4909C8B776@gmail.com>
To: W3C style mailing list <www-style@w3.org>, Andrew Thompson <lordpixel@mac.com>
Thanks !

Someone suggested to me 'speak-as' instead of 'speak-style'. I like  
it, because it is similar to SSML's 'say-as' or 'interpret-as' (which  
is good, as there is a degree of functional overlap, after all), but  
also sufficiently different to avoid confusion (SSML "speaking style"  
features are richer, CSS doesn't attempt to match them because they  
are defined in a separate W3C Note).

It would be good if we could avoid using 'normal' for both 'speak' and  
'speak-as' though...is 'default' too close to 'inherit' (which is  
reserved in CSS property values) ?

Cheers, Dan

On 28 Apr 2011, at 00:00, Andrew Thompson wrote:

> Looks good to me
>
>
>
> On Apr 27, 2011, at 9:12 AM, Daniel Weck <daniel.weck@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi !
>> There are currently no implementations of 'speakability' [1], as it  
>> has only just been created from the old [2] 'speak' property (which  
>> is now split into 2 distinct properties).
>>
>> Existing implementations [3] of previous versions of the CSS3- 
>> Speech draft will have to be updated anyway, so we might as well  
>> grab the opportunity to fix the specification now. Given the  
>> scarcity of both CSS-Speech/Aural implementations and content, I  
>> would have thought that the "annoyance" caused by the renaming /  
>> refactoring of the speaking properties would be minimal. Note that  
>> the proposed change would not diverge much from the old CSS 2.1  
>> Aural Appendix [4] either:
>>
>> 'speak' ==> [auto | none | normal]
>> 'speak-style' ==> [ normal | spell-out | digits | literal- 
>> punctuation | no-punctuation ]
>>
>> (PS: I am not keen on your suggested 'pronunciation' property name,  
>> because of the risk of confusion with phonemes and lexicons ...  
>> thus why I propose 'speak-style' instead)
>>
>> Thoughts ?
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-speech/#speakability
>>
>> [2]
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-css3-speech-20041216/#speaking-props
>>
>> [3]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Mar/0389.html
>>
>> [4]
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/aural.html#speaking-props
>>
>>
>> On 27 Apr 2011, at 13:21, Andrew Thompson wrote:
>>
>>> You're correct, use of this invented  word is ugly.
>>>
>>> This is tricky because in an ideal world I think speakability  
>>> would in fact be speak (as in speak: none or speak: auto) and the  
>>> existing speak property would work well if it were called  
>>> pronunciation (pronunciation: normal, pronunciation: spell-out).  
>>> Still no chance of that now.
>>>
>>> 'Speaking' doesn't work because it's the present participle of a  
>>> verb (gerund) and you need a noun construct like speaking-style or  
>>> an adjective for consistency.
>>>
>>> Some alternatives
>>> 'speech'
>>> 'audibility'
>>> 'aural'
>>> ?
>>>
>>> On Apr 26, 2011, at 10:32 PM, Daniel Weck <daniel.weck@gmail.com>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello !
>>>>
>>>> I am not a native english speaker, so I would like to query your  
>>>> opinion about the 'speakability' property name [1]. A better  
>>>> alternative may be 'speaking', but I'm concerned about its  
>>>> juxtaposition with the existing 'speak' property, and the  
>>>> resulting potential misinterpretations.
>>>>
>>>> Note that although CSS3-Speech is directly "inspired" by SSML  
>>>> [2], the closest equivalent to the 'speak' CSS functionality is  
>>>> described in the "say-as attribute values" W3C Note [3]. I would  
>>>> however not recommend the use of "say-as" instead of 'speak',  
>>>> because in the case of CSS3-Speech, the feature scope is much  
>>>> more limited (in other words, using "say-as" would effectively be  
>>>> misleading).
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Daniel
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-speech/#speaking-props
>>>>
>>>> [2]
>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/speech-synthesis/
>>>>
>>>> [3]
>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/ssml-sayas/
>>>>
>>
>> Daniel Weck
>> daniel.weck@gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>

Daniel Weck
daniel.weck@gmail.com
Received on Wednesday, 27 April 2011 23:12:20 GMT

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