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RE: [css3-text] Hanging punctuation for Roman (was script-specific functionality

From: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 01:58:00 -0400
To: Alan Stearns <stearns@adobe.com>, Ambrose LI <ambrose.li@gmail.com>
CC: Håkon Wium Lie <howcome@opera.com>, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
Message-ID: <A592E245B36A8949BDB0A302B375FB4E0AB3D55A97@MAILR001.mail.lan>
> It is correct that InDesign does not seem to support this
> (for whatever mysterious reason). But it can be easily
> done in Illustrator.

Thanks for the confirmation, Ambrose and Alan.

> And this is partly why I oppose using Word's behavior
> as a model for anything.

Word's hanging punctuation supports East Asian type only too. It was designed and developed by East Asian team, and therefore it doesn't allow hanging U+002E FULL STOP for instance.

I understand Wikipedia is incorrect. But even if it exists, doesn't the fact that at least two major applications in the world not supporting the feature indicate that it's not very important to put into CSS3?


Regards,
Koji

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Stearns [mailto:stearns@adobe.com] 
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 2:55 PM
To: Ambrose LI; Koji Ishii
Cc: Håkon Wium Lie; www-style@w3.org
Subject: Re: [css3-text] Hanging punctuation for Roman (was script-specific functionality

On 4/7/11 10:45 PM, "Ambrose LI" <ambrose.li@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2011/4/8 Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>:
>> I keep getting messages saying hanging punctuation on the end-edge 
>> (right for
>> LTR) is used in Latin scripts, and then other people saying it's 
>> incorrect and it should be removed. Currently I take the later as 
>> that's what Wikipedia's picture[1] indicates, but the feature is 
>> still there for East Asian typography.
>> 
>> I tried In Design but it doesn't seem to support Roman type hanging 
>> punctuation. As far as I tried, it allows East Asian type hanging 
>> punctuation only. It does support optical margin alignment though.
>> 
>> Does In Design support this? If so, can you tell me how?
> 
> It is correct that InDesign does not seem to support this (for 
> whatever mysterious reason). But it can be easily done in Illustrator.
> 
> And this is partly why I oppose using Word¹s behaviour as a model for 
> anything. These software only capture what their programmers know (or 
> rather believe they know). They can¹t do a lot of things. And 
> sometimes they can do something but it¹s done wrong. As CJK people we 
> should all know this very well.

InDesign only supports optical margin alignment, which happens to set quote marks outside the right edge of the text and thus approximates hanging punctuation. There has never been enough budget to do proper hanging punctuation ­ other feature work has always been given priority. Sometimes it's a matter of what the programmers think they know, and sometimes it's merely what they have time for.

Thanks,

Alan 
Received on Friday, 8 April 2011 06:00:06 GMT

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