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RE: [css3-writing-modes] vertical writing mode and visual formatting

From: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:27:24 -0400
To: Alan Gresley <alan@css-class.com>, CSS W3C Group <www-style@w3.org>
Message-ID: <A592E245B36A8949BDB0A302B375FB4E0AA36341B5@MAILR001.mail.lan>
Hi Alan,

> Test 1 has vertical writing-mode on body.
> 
> <http://css-class.com/test/css/bidi/kanji-test1.htm>
> 
> IE8 and IE9 beta render the same. Is this what authors really want? A very
> long page would overflow endlessly towards the left.

I think this is an expected behavior. Lines flow right-to-left, and pages flow right-to-left. I can't imagine what else we could design this.


> Test 2 has vertical writing-mode on div.
> 
> <http://css-class.com/test/css/bidi/kanji-test2.htm>
> 
> IE8 overflows to the right and below. Long pages must be scrolled
> towards the right to get to the beginning of the document. Adjusting
> the bottom and right or the viewport causes paragraphs lengths to
> increase or decrease. Sometimes the bottom scrollbar disappear with
> content overflowing into hidden on both left and right sides. IE9 beta
> handles this strange. Adjusting the sides (best seen of right edge) of
> the viewport causes the paragraph to increase or decrease but this
> causes lot of empty space below.

As far as I understand, how to determine logical-width (=height) of vertical div within horizontal text flow is still an issue, and I believe fantasai is going to work on that in the box model of the spec in near future. Until the spec is finalized and is implemented, specifying height might be the best practice.


> Test 3 has vertical writing-mode on div with horizontal text first.
> 
> http://css-class.com/test/css/bidi/kanji-test3.htm
> 
> IE8 overflows to the right and below. Long pages must be scrolled
> towards the right to get to the beginning of the document. Vertical
> text section is moved towards so from the very first paragraph, one
> must scroll vertically downwards. The amount of the overflow below
> seems to be the same height as the horizontal text blocks. The
> paragraph don't seem to increase or decrease in length. IE9 doesn't
> supply a scrollbar at the bottom towards the scroll right.
> 
> I do believe the best solution is to overflow downwards like this with
> vertical blocks.
> 
> 5  4  3  2  1
> x  x  x  x  x
> x  x  x  x  x
> x  x  x  x  x
> x  x  x  x  x
> x  x  x  x  x
> 
> 10 9  8  7  6
> x  x  x  x  x
> x  x  x  x  x
> x  x  x  x  x
> x  x  x  x  x
> x  x  x  x  x

No, it's multi-column vertical document. I understand you feel it be natural, I actually agree it's nice, but if you rotate it 90 degree counter-clockwise, you'll find that it's multi-column layout. Things that doesn't happen in horizontal text flow doesn't happen in vertical text flow either. To make it happen, you need to wait for multi-column implemented.

> Problem 2 is with floats (overflow and overlapping problems) and
> problem 3 is with block formatting context or lack of block
> progression context. This I will mention later. I need sleep.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this part very well. Can you please explain a little more?


Regards,
Koji
Received on Monday, 25 October 2010 18:25:20 GMT

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