W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > October 2010

RE: [css3-writing-modes] a third option for implementing logical properties

From: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 00:45:39 -0400
To: Håkon Wium Lie <howcome@opera.com>, David Hyatt <hyatt@apple.com>
CC: John Daggett <jdaggett@mozilla.com>, "L. David Baron" <dbaron@dbaron.org>, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
Message-ID: <A592E245B36A8949BDB0A302B375FB4E0AA3634140@MAILR001.mail.lan>
> We'd end up with very many properties, though. And long discussions about
> which properties/values to duplicate: background-position?
> caption-side? clear? float? text-align? vertical-align?

These are always logical. You can't render physical-left-aligned text in vertical text flow, can you. So we don't need corresponding logical properties for them.

> top? right? > bottom? left?

They need corresponding logical properties, and current idea is to call them as offset-before, offset-after, etc.

The number of additional properties, including offset-*, is 34, given all properties from CSS 2.1 and CSS3 that are CR or above. The draft is almost ready to propose.

> The pseudo-class and media queries options are compelling to me as they
> allow optimized values to be set, not just mirrored values. In general,
> I don't think you can just mirrors values. For example, in the textbook
> example above you may want to have different borders on right and left pages.
> Using media queries, one could e.g. express this
> as:
>   @media (page: right) {
>     border: thin solid red;
>   }
>   @media (page: left) {
>     border: thin solid blue;
>   }

I'm not opposed to the idea. Actually, it's really brilliant when you want different styles per direction as you said.

But it's a little overkill if you want logically-same style per direction; you're forced to duplicate logically-same properties. And more than 90% of cases for horizontal/vertical are logically-same styles. It'd be perfect if, in addition to your proposal, there's a help for the most common case in horizontal/vertical. Could you help us to figure out how we can write it simpler for the vertical flow?

>  > Another idea: just specify writing-mode in HTML instead and don't  >
> have it be in CSS at all (except as a pseudo class you match on in  > order
> to provide rules for that writing mode). This is a little  > weird in that
> we already have direction in CSS though.
> I think it makes sense for this to be known in HTML.

I'm not sure if I understand this sentence correctly due to my English skill, I'm sorry in advance if I misunderstand, but I just want you to understand that writing-mode is a stylistic property. It is under "Format" menu in word processors. I understand thinking it as stylistic property is sometimes hardly acceptable, as it took months for the English-speaking people to understand this when I tried before, but it is from the definition of East Asians.

As far as I understand, you don't want writing-mode to be defined in HTML if it's purely a stylistic property, right?

Received on Monday, 25 October 2010 04:43:36 UTC

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