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Re: [css3-ruby] [css3-text] Position values and before/after definitions in LR vertical writing mode

From: Alan Gresley <alan@css-class.com>
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 18:59:53 +1000
Message-ID: <4CA5A309.2060706@css-class.com>
To: Ishii Koji <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>
CC: Stephen Zilles <szilles@adobe.com>, Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>, 'fantasai' <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>, 'WWW International' <www-international@w3.org>, "btmnk0825@gmail.com" <btmnk0825@gmail.com>
Ishii Koji wrote:
> I understand this:
[snip]
>>        d. Before/After make sense in both vertical and horizontal writing-modes. Over/under does not make (obvious) sense in a vertical writing-mode.
> 
> Well, I think "make sense or not" depends on who you ask, and is a little weak to do logical discussions, so let's remove this from both.


Before and after only makes sense in Latin if we have this.

   The quick brown
   fox jumped over
   the lazy fox.

The examples of Mongolian that I have seen (the attached file from SZ
and this one [1]) shows block progression flowing from LTR so in
Latin, it would be like this.

   the lazy fox.
   fox jumped over
   The quick brown


Does before/after over/under make sense? Not really from my perspective.


> Given pros you listed up, thank you for writing this, I think there are two points to discuss.
> 
> First, there's a concept we did not recognize until now. And I guess you agreed with it in your point (a). So it's a balance between the complexity and the importance of old Mongolian. We all know that current spec is enough for all languages except old Mongolian. "do we want to add one more level of abstraction just for old Mongolian, or it's just not enough to do that" is probably the question we'd like to discuss.

Koji, in an earlier message in this thread [2] you wrote this:

  | The same thing actually happened for Japanese and Chinese.
  | Underline in Japanese vertical writing is drawn on right
  | as you might know. In Japanese, it's called "傍線", which
  | means "side-line", so neither "under" nor "over" is the
  | correct translations. We chose to name it "overline",
  | because "over" is correct if you look at alphabet
  | orientations in vertical text.

So the underline is on the right side and means 'side-line'. Instead
of before/after or over/under, have you thought of side or side-line
(like in along-side or be-side) for emphasis?


[snip]
> Regards,
> Koji Ishii


1.
<http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/discuss/vertical-text/diagrams/mongolian-lr.jpg>
2. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Oct/0001.html>

-- 
Alan http://css-class.com/

Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
Received on Friday, 1 October 2010 09:27:06 GMT

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