W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > June 2010

Re: [css3-text-layout] New editor's draft - margin-before/after/start/end etc.

From: Håkon Wium Lie <howcome@opera.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 12:01:33 +0200
Message-ID: <19464.52989.181294.703757@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
To: "MURATA Makoto (FAMILY Given)" <eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp>
Cc: John Daggett <jdaggett@mozilla.com>, www-style@w3.org
Also sprach MURATA Makoto (FAMILY Given):

 > To me, some of the proposals from important members of the 
 > CSS WG is based on poor understanding of the requirements.  
 > I have already explained why :lang does not work  
 > in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010May/0668.html

where you wrote:

 > > To me, it seems that both the proposed alternatives fulfill this
 > > requirement. In Alt 1, which relies on language codes, one can write:
 >
 >   :lang(ja) { ... }
 >   :lang(en) { ... }
 >
 > This certainly fails because different Japanese paragarphs within 
 > a single document have different writing directions.

It's trivial to extend the example to take this into account. E.g.:

    :lang(ja) { writing-mode: tb-rl }
    :lang(ja) table { writing-mode: lr-tb }
    :lang(en) { writing-mode: lr-tb }

This would allow you to express your preferences for writing
directions, if not provide graceful degradation in all cases.

 > To be clear, I have never made broad assertions against those who
 > criticize the margin-start, etc. proposal. I did make such
 > assertions against those who raise counter proposals based on poor
 > understanding of the requirement or the dir attribute.

I think you're underestimating your peers in this forum. 

 > > Other than graceful fallback are there other reasons you feel logical
 > > properties are required?
 > 
 > This is the biggest reason.

That's good to know. 

 > > A lot of folks at browser companies are spending time and effort to
 > > make typography better on the web.  If a proposed change requires a lot
 > > of work and doesn't really solve underlying problems completely, why not
 > > consider a different approach that does a better job?
 > 
 > A different approach is fine, but :lang is broken and :ttb is extremely 
 > doubtful. 

I think you're disregarding other proposals too quickly, with too
strong words, before the proposals have been developed. 

All proposals needs discussion and development, that's what this list
is for.

Cheers,

-h&kon
              Håkon Wium Lie                          CTO °þe®ª
howcome@opera.com                  http://people.opera.com/howcome
Received on Friday, 4 June 2010 10:02:23 GMT

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