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Re: [css3-layout] shorthand for slot construction

From: Giovanni Campagna <scampa.giovanni@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:03:11 +0200
Message-ID: <65307430910190703h58ece1abnf118f580fc596d6e@mail.gmail.com>
To: Stephen Hay <haymail@gmail.com>
Cc: news@terrainformatica.com, Www-style <www-style@w3.org>
2009/10/19 Stephen Hay <haymail@gmail.com>:
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Giovanni Campagna
> <scampa.giovanni@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>> One who can design for Safari 6, Chrome 4 or IE10 for example. The W3C
>> is constrained by current browser support.
>
> I think Andrew's point is that proper layout tools could avoid these
> types of problems.

Then my point is: either we have the appropriate tools (tables), but
they're not supported (in IE<=7), or we need to create new layout
tools, which is what we're trying to do here, right?

>>
>>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layout_manager
>>>
>>>>> While I see your point, I think we still need one grid layout system.
>>>>> My opinion is that we should take whatever is necessary from flexbox
>>>>> and css3-grid (only the 'gr' unit IMO), add them to template layout,
>>>>> and keep that as a grid layout system. So then:
>>>>>
>>>>> Template layout = grid layout system
>>>>> Positioning = position things on and within the grid
>>>>> Floats = float things within the grid
>>>>> Table layout = for laying out tables :)
>>>>
>>>> The point is: what is template that cannot be done with tables and
>>>> content adjusting?
>>>
>>> So we will end up in recommending authors to use tables for
>>> layout purposes, eh?
>>
>> Yeah, of course. The important part is: use tables, not <table>.
>
> The way CSS tables are specified now, that's simply peanut butter in
> chocolate as opposed to chocolate in peanut butter. CSS tables are
> *meant* for tables in the tabular data sense, are they not?

CSS Tables were introduced for HTML tables, but they're meant to
visually represent any layout that can be thought as an intersection
of rows and columns, although they have some feature really meant for
semantic tables (like captions). Not the same as Grid, but similar,
and conceptually equal to Template.

> If I
> understand you correctly, you're proposing extending them to
> accommodate the demands of page layout? If CSS tables already do what
> they're supposed to for tables, why extend the meaning, and why not
> simply create a separate model (which css3-layout seems to be) for a
> page/element layout framework?

CSS Tables are similar to the Flexible Box model *without any
extension*. The only extension really needed to Tables to be a
complete replacement for Flexible Box is something like box-flex-group
(since even box-lines can be faked with single-row tables, multicol
elements and block-flow), which could be added with the new normative
automatic table layout.
Template Layout could be layered above Tables, instead it uses a
different layout system, which I'd like to change.

>>
>>> And what is that "content adjusting"?
>>
>> Changing the source document to achieve a particular layout, dropping
>> semantics, adding more container elements, breaking logical order.
>>
>> Giovanni
>>
>
> /Stephen
>
Received on Monday, 19 October 2009 14:03:41 GMT

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