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[CSSWG] Minutes F2F 2009-06-03 Part II: Scheduling, Website, text-overflow, DoC format

From: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:27:23 -0700
Message-ID: <4A388CCB.2000709@inkedblade.net>
To: www-style@w3.org
Upcoming Meetings
-----------------

   tpac is 2-3 nov 2009
   SteveZ: are we meeting the sunday as well?
   (no)
   (we look at march 2010)
   dbaron: time for a north american meeting
   ChrisL: www2010 is 26-30 april in raleigh
   <ChrisL> http://www2010.org/www/
   Daniel: yes but we need a meeting in between
   (hakon offers oslo in february, to laughter)
   (brainstorming on dates and locations. speculation as to tpac 2010
    site and date)
   proposed: bay area in march, several hosting possibilities, easy for
             peter linss to get to
   Daniel: after 8 march
   Sylvain: sxsw etc overlaps
   dbaron: sxsw is mar 12-16
   Molly: crazy week, mix right after
   proposed: 22-24 march, bay area
   adobe, mozilla as possible hosts
   <jdaggett> proposed: apple hosts
   hakon proposes oslo in august or june
   howcome: the more meetings, the lower the attendance
   SteveZ: perfer to avoid 16
   18-20 August 2010, Oslo
   and then see about tpac
   <dbaron> I just updated http://www.w3.org/Style/Group/meetings.html with
            "(tentative)" entries for the two meetings we just planned.
            Somebody else should check I got everything right, though.
   <ChrisL> yup, looks good

role of molly, liaison, use cases, website
------------------------------------------

   Molly: we had jason teague, did a lot of work, and it was put aside
          and lost momentum
   Molly: bert did some work but we lost the information architecture
   Molly: so would like to project manage that to bring to fruition
   fantasai: that would be great
   Bert: want to keep existing links and names of pages (cool links don't break)
   Bert: thought i used the structure
   fantasai: layout but not the information architecture
   Bert: public pages, i'm responsible and have to be maintainable
   Bert: and chris as well
   Bert: so don't want to learn new tools
   Bert: have some make scripts, eg for translations
   Bert: structure, what did I do wrong there?
   Bert posts a link
   Bert: this is a temporary page and will go away
   Bert: trimmed out links to other w3c groups
   Bert: also made top left menu shorter
   fantasai: news and current work are very long , unstructured. Our design
             had a structure, not just the page but the whole site.
   fantasai: set up a structure to understand the site. but this is a huge
             long list
   fantasai: jasons draft did not have the long lists
   Bert: oh, i didn't use his latest work, didn't like it
   fantasai: propose that we take berts draft and rearrange the content to
             have the current work in a smaller or secondary page
   Molly: needs to be clear and simple with links to further information
   fantasai: drowned in long list of news items
   SteveZ: keep top 3
   Molly: replace current work with an intro, link to more details
   (discussion on whether the design is too big)
   Molly: its a current design trend, big and bold
   Molly: boxes need to be smaller, to the point. this is designer/developer
          outreach, not for coders
   Molly:  Ilike richard ishidas site, very clean
   Molly: this may be a bit over designed
   jdaggett: just needs itghtening to a higher information density
   Bert: ok, that would be easy, trimming news items, replacing table with
         an intro
   fantasai: in our design, little boxes to introduce topics
   fantasai: actual sections, not random links. need to impose a structure
   <jdaggett> jdaggett: many thumbs up for this...
   fantasai: and navigation header represents these topics across all subpages
   Molly: just presenting the material well. tighten up and match the
          information to the audience and a consistent navigation scheme
          throughout
   fantasai: so I suggest I work with molly to show bert what we mean
   Bert: top bar has three items as well as the home page
   SteveZ: want a quick way to see whats on *this* page
   SteveZ: lots below the fold
   ChrisL: maybe tabs to give an overview
   fantasai: so small boxes, if its short you can see the whole thing at a glance
   Molly: good info, but does not all belong on home page
   Molly: so elika and i will work on that and i can manage this
   Molly: people expect more of w3c in terms of usable information

   Molly: which brings us to community outreach and liaison
   Molly: to drive traffic we need attractive resources, then use twitter
   Molly: its our relationship to the world
   Molly: fundamental, and missing
   Molly: social networking can enhance this and I want to work on that.
          developers want to be more involved, but designers find it hard
          to track whats going on
   jdaggett: is this really aimed at content developers?
   jdaggett: desigers spend a lot of time on edge cases caused by poor interop
   Bert: there is the blog as well
   Daniel: demo pages
   Daniel: want to see demo pages for new stuff, with an explanation below.
           short articles
   Molly: showing use of features, best practices
   Molly: community liaison is what I am best at
   Daniel: template with container elements
   SteveZ: so what happens if the browser does not implement the feature?
   <Bert> http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/011/firstcss
   <Bert> http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/
   Molly: understanding of css is still very low. need to teach the current
          stuff as well as the upcoming stuff
   SteveZ: sure, but want to see a screen cap as well to show what it should
           look like
   Molly: or video
   Daniel: example, using :target to do tabs
   Bert: the links above are some of the most popoular pages
   Bert: need something between absolute beginners and expert level
   Molly: in colleges people are learning products like dreamweaver, not
          standards. show what they need to know now wnd what is coming later
   jdaggett: we have decided to move modules forward independently so there
             is no css3
   jdaggett: the outside world sees it as a monolithic entity and wonders
             where it is
   Molly: educators need to find a new terminology that is consistent with
          the module structure
   Molly: educators and evangelists need materials to work with
   Molly: its a bunch of pieces, not a versioning system
   ChrisL: key message is the relevance of css 2.1, module s add to it,
           doesn't throw it all away
   Molly: also want to call to the community
   SteveZ: snapshots should replace css3. css3 snapshots, then drop the "3".
           its whats realistic today
   Molly: so all of this, the outfacing site, the comunity liaison - give
          designers ownership and make them feel part of it
   fantasai: also we need feedback /from/ designers
   Molly: via social networks
   Daniel: so we all agree to assign this to molly?
   (general agreement)
   Bert: how to keep in touch?
   ChrisL: concerns over the group not being as public as the charter says
           it should be
   jdaggett: one thing is to work out how defined a feature is and to not
             talk up highly unstable stuff
   <fantasai> ChrisL, we try to keep administrivia on the internal list,
              in general that's the only thing that should be going to
              the internal list
   <fantasai> ChrisL, if technical issues get sent internally, it's an
              error on the senders part and should be resent to www-style
   (lunch)
   div class="two column hack"

text-overflow
-------------

Scribe: Arron
   <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0167.html
   <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Aug/0271.html
   fantasai: vertical overflow or jsut the last line
   Alex: and ellipsis only mase sense on the last line not always in the middle
   fantasai: (drawing ellipsis examples)
   Bert: how automatic are the rules for ellipsis
   ChrisL: what happens when scrolling? does the ellipsis stay with last line?
   fantasai: yes
   dbaron: if its a single line we may need a special case for not clipping
   fantasai: do we want to handle both cases for text-overflow vertical and
             horizontal?
   do we want to add additional properties
   Molly: what would designers expect and how would it be clipped
   fantasai: when there is an ellipsis the text just goes away and is
             referenced by the ellipsis
   RESOLVED: text overflow in case of vertical overflow still applies to
             individual lines

Disposition of Comments Format
------------------------------

   Writing disposition of comments after last call
   Daniel explains color coding
   of dispositions of comments
   Green means resolved
   Orange means deferred
   Red means unresolved
   ChrisL: the idea is a standard for disposition of comments
   Anne: I used orange to mean rejected, and red to mean formal objection
   <howcome> howcome has joined #css
   ChrisL: one solution is to have two columns
   dbaron: For Color I had a separate color for rejected features that
           were objections
   dbaron: whoever reads it should define the standards for this
   ChrisL: lets ask for examples of good practices
   ChrisL: ask Ian or some of the chairs
   ACTION: Daniel to send email asking about standards for color codings
           and disposition of comments
Received on Wednesday, 17 June 2009 07:48:15 GMT

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