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Re: Fwd: [css3-gcpm] new draft -- including "overflow: paged"

From: Håkon Wium Lie <howcome@opera.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:20:56 +0100
Message-ID: <18785.10296.767350.296297@opera.com>
To: "Giovanni Campagna" <scampa.giovanni@gmail.com>
Cc: www-style@w3.org

Also sprach Giovanni Campagna:

 > > I'm not sure that I disagree with you, but I'd like to hear more about
 > > your reasoning. Why can't we just say that the viewport is the limit
 > > and no scrollbars will be provided?
 > 
 > I was thinking especially of document-viewer-like user interface (something
 > similar to Acrobat Reader plugin in windows), allowing the UA to instantly
 > jump to pages or bookmarks instead of jumping according to fragment
 > identifiers (so you write once for both print and screen)

I don't have that OS/viwer available, but I think you're saying we
need to leave room for chrome? If so, yes -- with "viewport" I mean
the window that the browser makes available. It could be the whole
screen, or parts of it.

 > > Opera, in its projection mode, allows content to grow but no
 > > scrollbars will be provided. You can use arrow keys and PgDn/PgUp to
 > > access all of (say) a large image. Here's a test document, press F11
 > > in Opera to see the effect:
 > >
 > >  http://people.opera.com/howcome/2009/operashow/test.html
 > >
 > > However, we *could* scale or crop the image and thereby enforce the
 > > viewport size. That would often create a better user experience.
 > >
 > 
 > The example you gave is actually the same user interface and rendering model
 > as normal viewing, w/o scrollbars.

No, when you press F11 you go into paged mode; you can only get to
page 3 by using PgDn. In addition, Opera allows you to use arrow keys
to access content which would otherwise not be visible. As such, Opera
provides a mixed model, but I'm unusre if this is wise. I'm leaning
towards enforcing the viewport size strictly.

 > - if you want to split content into navigable pages, you may need to define
 > the size of a page (thus the @page applied to non-paged media) or define
 > what goes in which page, so that the UA can render a paged presentation,
 > although it may show pages flowing instead of individually

I don't want style sheets to demand cerntain sizes, I want the content
to adapt to the size which is available. It will vary widely between
mobile phones and projected presentations. If we allow style sheets to
indicate preferred sizes, we'll be back in scrolling mode quickly.

 > In other words, I don't understand what you actually mean

Right :-) 

I want to read web pages without scrolling. I want every web page that
the user is presented with to be laid out for the size which is
available on the user's device, and I want to press a key/button to go
to the next/previous page.

For example, I'd like to see a presentation like this in normal
browsers:

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelcasey/244076319/

-h&kon
              Håkon Wium Lie                          CTO °þe®ª
howcome@opera.com                  http://people.opera.com/howcome
Received on Sunday, 4 January 2009 21:21:35 GMT

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