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Re: Quirks Mode (was: Re: CSS WG - Pulling Back the Curtains)

From: Brad Kemper <brkemper@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:08:05 -0700
Message-Id: <0D60C56A-8162-4C68-A726-67DB4B762E46@comcast.net>
Cc: "Alan Gresley" <alan@css-class.com>, www-style@w3.org
To: "Anne van Kesteren" <annevk@opera.com>


On Mar 30, 2008, at 11:29 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:

>
> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:24:17 -0700, Brad Kemper  
> <brkemper@comcast.net> wrote:
>> How about a better definition of Quirks Mode? In most browsers,
>> Quirks Mode includes new properties, like text-shadow in Safari, but
>> in IE it doesn't even include max-width, which is extremely
>> frustrating when I have to style pages written in HTML 3.2. Can there
>> be a definition that says Quirks Mode renders according to old
>> standards for properties that existed at that time, but that newer
>> properties should also be included too, as they are in most browsers?
>
> FWIW, at some point I'd like to see the affect of quirks mode be  
> defined in CSS. HTML 5 already defines when you enter "quirks  
> mode", "limited quirks mode" (also known as almost standards mode),  
> and "no quirks mode" (also known as standards mode). It makes sense  
> for other specifications where quirks are necessary for Web  
> compatibility to define those.

Agreed. I hope it can get into the charter somewhere to recognize the  
millions of pages out there that will not ever be re-authored (at  
least any time soon), but could at least be restyled (whole sites at  
a time) by attaching new style sheets to them.

In my experience with having to style pages I didn't write (and can't  
directly change), selectors like "nth-child" would be extremely  
useful in being able to target the right element in the HTML when it  
is poorly identified through class and id. And things like "move-to"  
would be useful in undoing some of the damage of table-based layouts  
without having to completely re-write hundreds of pages of HTML.

I couldn't find anything in the CSS specs about quirks mode or the  
effect of the DOCTYPE. Maybe someone can point it out to me? I think  
it would be helpful to have even a sentence or two that says that a  
lack of DOCTYPE or a DOCTYPE lower than 4.0 can cause differences of  
how some properties behave (such as widths in IE or table heights in  
other UAs), but does not disable other, newer properties that the UA  
can render in other modes.

I think IE is the only major browser that just totally ignores in  
quirksmode all the newer properties that it accepts in standards mode.


>
> Unfortunately I don't have time to work on it myself for the  
> foreseeable future.
>
>
> -- 
> Anne van Kesteren
> <http://annevankesteren.nl/>
> <http://www.opera.com/>
>
Received on Sunday, 30 March 2008 20:08:45 GMT

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